OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 09:59 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
I wonder if Rodgers could have drugged them before he killed them.

They might not yet have toxicology tests back.

The police might also know more than they are saying right now.
I must agree with your assessment of the probabilities
(except qua the police; their case against Elliot will not suffer).





David
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 10:00 pm
@firefly,
I've written this somewhere before, he in-deed intended to kill his half brother and Step-Mother but not his Father.

The only reason they are alive today, given he went through with everything he wrote, (watch this space for his attempt to have cut the heads of the 3 he killed with a knife) which he intended to roll down the road, after shooting up at the College, is because his Father and Step-Mother decided to go out for tea that night with two friends. It didn't go to plan LUCKY for them.

http://www.news.com.au/world/killer-elliot-rodger-blamed-childhood-crush-monette-moio-for-his-violent-hatred-of-women-friend-says-he-talked-about-raping-women/story-fndir2ev-1226932494950

Quote:
COLLEGE campus killer Elliot Rodger blamed his violent misogyny on a pretty former childhood friend who went on to become his vision of all “mean, cruel and heartless” women.
Rodger became obsessed with Monette Moio, a fellow British expat and now-model, who was in seventh grade while he was eighth in the same California private school, according to his chilling manifesto.

In the twisted document, Rodger admitted he had a crush on the girl, but the feeling was apparently not reciprocated, and he hated her for it.

“My experience during Middle School really darkened my view of the world, and it would only get darker from then on, as I suffered more and more. The way I was treated by girls at this time, especially by that evil b***h … sparked an intense fear of girls,” wrote Rodger, 22, in his rambling 141-page manifesto
But the girl’s father, veteran Hollywood stuntman John Moio, said she only “vaguely remembers him” and was far too young to have been one of the “mean, cruel, and heartless creatures” that Rodger railed against.

“He called her a bully. She was just a little petite girl of just 10 years old,” Mr Moio, 75, said.

Mr Moio said he spoke with his daughter after her name surfaced in Rodger’s manifesto.

“He was [a year] older. She remembers him being odd, that’s it,” the dad said.

“She’s devastated over the whole thing,’ he told the Daily Mail. “It’s like she’s being implicated in this terrible tragedy for something she hasn’t done and can’t remember.”
Quote:
Prior to the killings that left six innocent victims dead in the California college town of Santa Barbara, Rodger had allegedly told a friend that he wanted to hold down and rape women, the friend’s mother has revealed.


And, there is your blonde. His obsession of more than 8 years, 12 years. The reason he hates blondes so much.

Are we fortunate he didn't rape instead? Maybe he was too gutless...

Killing is easier.

Seems also coming to light is his "friends" very few that tried, all that he hated anyway, at least one he invited to stay with him that weekend. He chose not to go. Wonder if he invited all of them. More than likely we will be told yes.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 10:01 pm
@ossobuco,
Why on earth would someone toss me down for caring about the people killed?

Ok, I mentioned a new person with possible agenda.

I suppose that might be true.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 10:28 pm
I just looked at a few pages of Rodger's complete manifesto and I came across this passage.
Quote:
My mother carried on pressuring me to get a job, and she would never leave me alone about it. She was a bit frustrated that I wasn’t getting one. The two of us had a lot of arguments, and living with my mother became an extreme hassle.

After signing me up to a program in the regional center, my mother found a life coach to counsel me and help me find a job. This life coach’s name was Tony, a boisterous 40 year old man who came to meet me every other week. I was open to going along with this. I had plenty of free time, and I was so lonely that any social interaction was welcome. For our meetings, Tony usually took me out to lunch somewhere in the Valley, where he gave me advice on socializing and self-improvement.

I continued searching for a job, but I still wasn’t able to find one. I refused all of the jobs that Tony suggested to me. The problem was that most of the jobs that were available to me at the time were jobs I considered to be beneath me. My mother wanted me to get a simple retail job, and the thought of myself doing that was mortifying. It would be completely against my character. I am an intellectual who is destined for greatness. I would never perform a low-class service job.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/226068735/Manifesto-of-Elliot-Rodger


I'm not quite sure when in time this took place, because I just picked a random page to read, but it was during the period he was in college, maybe his mother wanted him to get a summer job.

This grandiose snob already thought that doing a "simple retail job", while he was still a college student, was "mortifying" because it was "beneath me." Rolling Eyes

I think the "men's rights" groupies should stop trying to see this kid as an alleged pathetic victim of an alleged female dominated society. They should take a look at what he was really like before making him the poster boy for the oppression of men. He sounds more like a spoiled brat. His sense of entitlement is strong and glaring.

I wonder if Elliot ever considered trying to date an average looking girl, or did he consider that "beneath me" too. His fixation was only on "beautiful girls".

He was very intelligent and articulate, and wrote very well. When I have time, I'll read the entire 141 page manifesto. It is fascinating, and he starts his life story at the very beginning-- with his birth.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 10:31 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
This grandiose snob already thought that doing a "simple retail job"


Have you been around young people at anytime in the last 10 years? This kind of unreality about the job market is damn near normal with todays youth. One if the biggest problems with college grads that go on the market is that they pretty much all expect a $50K job offer right out of school.
nononono
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 10:40 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
I think the "men's rights" groupies should stop trying to see this kid as an alleged pathetic victim of an alleged female dominated society. They should take a look at what he was really like before making him the poster boy for the oppression of men.


He does NOT represent the men's rights movement. To my knowledge he didn't even have an association with it at all. That's exactly one of the ways man hating feminists and the media are warping this tragedy.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 10:43 pm
@nononono,
Quote:
To my knowledge he didn't even have an association with it at all.


he had certainly read a fair bit...he quotes somebody or another.

This guy is not a perfect representation for our argument, but he is a partial one, and we will be having a lot more, and better.
nononono
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 10:51 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
he had certainly read a fair bit...he quotes somebody or another.

This guy is not a perfect representation for our argument, but he is a partial one, and we will be having a lot more, and better.


Because he'd read bit does not mean he was involved in it. The pick up artist community is NOT the same thing as the men's rights movement. Well I'm willing to have empathy to a degree for the way he felt marginalized, he is NOT representative of a LEGITIMATE movement that is based on positivity and bettering oneself and others.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 10:57 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Have you been around young people in the last 10 years? This kind of unreality about the job market is damn near normal with todays youth. One if the biggest problem with college grads that go on the market is that they pretty much all expect a $50K job offer right out of school.

He wasn't a college grad. His mother was pushing him to get some kind of job while he was still in college.

And he's not voicing "unreality about the job market"--he was a grandiose snob. Look at his language--a simple retail job would be "mortifying"--he turned down all the jobs offered because they were "beneath me". 20 year olds, who aren't college grads, generally aren't that fussy about the jobs they take while still in school.

Don't forget, this kid lived a very privileged lifestyle that included spending time at luxurious Malibu beach houses, attending red carpet movie premieres, flying first class to private Katy Perry concerts, going to parties in mansions, and having his own expensive BMW and $300 sunglasses.

He was a class snob, in addition to being a racist. He was very upset his mother didn't marry some man she had been dating who was worth $500 million, because that would have upped his lifestyle even more.

He was a spoiled brat--with an enormous sense of entitlement.

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 11:02 pm
@firefly,
A Hollywood brat? I've never heard of one of those!
nononono
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 11:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
A Hollywood brat? I had no idea they existed!


It's not just Hollywood, the generation of kids in their 20's right now is kind of awful. Lot's of entitled feelings out there. And plenty who ARE fussy about the jobs they take while still in school.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 11:17 pm
@nononono,
I have one 3 years out of U, one about to leave, one that just got there. Re his ideas of work it sound very normal. Re his ideas of women, sounds like a typical have not 22 YO who has never had pussy because no woman will have him. I am the last person who is surprised that he gave up and decided to go out in a blaze of glory. If you want a different result then treat men better.
nononono
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 11:22 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
I wonder if Elliot ever considered trying to date an average looking girl, or did he consider that "beneath me" too.


Have you noticed how strongly the media tries to tell men that they should be attracted to heavy women these days?

But I've yet to see a media campaign with shirtless fat guys with back hair, and it being all about how "beautiful" they are. And it being done in a serious tone.

Where's the fat acceptance for males?
0 Replies
 
nononono
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 11:24 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
If you want a different result then treat men better.


Hard for some to accept, but this is true. There are countless frustrated, alienated men out there just like this kid.
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 11:34 pm
@firefly,
Don't forget he purchased hundreds of dollars worth of lottery tickets and only gave up and started with the next course of action when he missed out on the $120 million.

In my opinion, he thought Money would solve everything, hence why any job mentioned was beneath him. "I drive a BMW, have cool sunglasses". He thought if he had money, he would have women.

He was in-deed ecstatic to learn his Mother was dating someone worth $500 million and wanted her to marry him. His Mother was the one that bought him the car.

I'm of the Opinion, his Father he had some respect or fear of. Maybe fear, as he didn't want to kill him, I believe he thought he couldn't take on his Father. Though he hated it he, the Father, stood up for his Step-Mother and he believed the house his Father owned, would one day be his, so he could walk into it at any time, without knocking because in his mind, he was rich, it was his.

I wonder if he used his Father in conversations and as that wasn't enough even to win a woman, he had to work out how to get his own money.

I believe he attended the Premiers etc, to try to make him social.

I have a feeling he didn't get much at all from his Father and Step-Mother including love.

He was happy to get a sibling at one stage and then, hated him. Like everyone else.

He wasn't against women, ultimately it was the blonde girl at a young age, then blondes full stop. He was against the World, the World owed him. He hated everyone.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 11:37 pm
@hawkeye10,
He wasn't really a Hollywood brat, because his father's success was rather recent. And he bemoans the fact his father wasn't a more successful director, and didn't make more money.

When he wasn't obsessed with acquiring a "beautiful girl" he was obsessed with acquiring great wealth.

And he wasn't isolated, he had friends, but he had distain for them too, and he was so envious and angry, at the fact they were more successful with females than he was, he created conflicts with his friends too. He had a lot of problems socially, it's not hard to see why women wouldn't want to get involved with him. He doesn't sound like an appealing person, at all. I wouldn't think other men would want to spend much time with him either. He didn't sound like good company, or someone who was easy to have around.

Anyway, I've got to read that entire manifesto.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 11:42 pm
@firefly,
His stepmon is a long running gig, dad is assistant director on hunger games and is a made man.....you are either nuts or a liar.

You know what my vote is.
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 May, 2014 11:44 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
Rodger may have been mentally disturbed but his instincts, at least on this
Quote:
subject, seem borne out by the lop-sided overage given to his two white, female and one Hispanic male victims as opposed to the Asian males. They were Weihan Wang, 20, George Chen, 19 and Cheng Yuan Hong, 20, by the way.

Much has been made of Rodger's misogyny, yet he stabbed these three Asian men to death and mutilated their bodies. Think about the sort of mind needed to do something like that, then move calmly on to your next victims? Ask yourself if they're the actions of a sane man?


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/illness-not-misogyny-made-elliot-rodger-kill-20140527-zrnd0.html#ixzz32tLaaNZk

Picture of the victims. Makes you feel sad.

There was a deeper rooted evil about Elliot not just a mental illness. Reading that, I believe he attempted to cut their heads off, as he had written of his intent to do so.

That' evil, not a simple social skill illness. And, again, it's not about women entirely, whilst he direct his words in that fashion, he did hate everyone. 4 men, two women.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 12:03 am
@FOUND SOUL,
Feeling sad for the victims will do zero to help us understand what happened, or to prevent the next rampage. You see the exact same thing in the rape thread where everyone but me wants to cry over the current victims, I want to focus on preventing the next victim from being made. It is sad, I get it and I care, but it is a completely unproductive mine. We can't do anything to prevent the current victims from being victims. We can however prevent new ones from being created.

Some focus and ability to prioritize would be nice.
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 May, 2014 12:10 am
@FOUND SOUL,
INTERESTING.

Deputies wounded him during two separate shootouts as he sped through Isla Vista, leaving a trail of bloodshed that ended with Rodger apparently shooting himself in the head before crashing his black BMW into a parked car, Santa Barbara County Sheriff Bill Brown said.

Authorities had had three contacts with Rodgers in the past year, including one case in which he claimed to be beaten but deputies suspected he was the aggressor. On April 30, officials went to his Isla Vista apartment again to check on him at the request of his family. But deputies reported back that the Santa Barbara community college student was shy, polite and having a difficult social life but did not need to be taken in for mental health reasons, Brown said.

Sheriffs "never" saw menacing videos.


Rodger had prior contact with the police on two other occasions. The first was in July 2013, when he claimed he had been assaulted, but investigators determined that he might have been the aggressor.[16] The second incident occurred on January 15, 2014, when Rodger accused his roommate Cheng Yuan Hong of stealing his candles. Hong was arrested and charged with "petty theft infraction" for stealing Rodger's candles; he pled guilty to the charge.[68][69] Hong, who went by the name "James", was one of Rodger's stabbing victims

Seen to be the aggressor.
Laid chargers for petty theft of candles against a room-mate.
Was reported by parents over videos.

Sheriff office never saw his videos, even though the parents reported exactly that, his videos.
http://jacksonville.com/breaking-news/2014-05-25/story/sheriffs-office-never-saw-elliot-rodgers-menacing-videos-deadly

Quote:
The sheriff's office "was not aware of any videos until after the shooting rampage occurred," Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Office spokeswoman Kelly Hoover said.

Sheriff Bill Brown has defended the officers' actions, but the case highlights the challenges that police face in assessing the mental health of adults, particularly those with no history of violent breakdowns, institutionalizations or serious crimes.

"Obviously, looking back on this, it's a very tragic situation and we certainly wish that we could turn the clock back and maybe change some things," Brown told CBS' "Face the Nation" on Sunday.




How can that happen.

 

 
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