Elliot Rodger

@ossobuco,

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I think school policies that I have read about on a2k, usually on Boomer's thread, and elsewhere, seem unenlightened and less than useful.

Oh, they are very useful towards their intended purpose. That is why they are still here even though they get in the way of education. We are getting some whining about how many boys are thrown out of school for trivial offenses, particularly black little boys, but so far to no effect,....does not get any more traction than does complaining about how many men are in prison, particularly black men, and that prison officials take almost no interest in all of the sexual abuse that goes on under their watch.

EDIT: since the feminist want equality and since we know how much they care about sexual abuse, when can we expact them to take an interest in all of the sexual abuse in our prisons? Maybe when hell freezes over?

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@hawkeye10,

Adds, I edited that post with an addition re schooling.

Now I see where you get your fem hate. There are those women. That is not me, or literally any of my women friends (or male friends) who are pro women being able to have careers and lives they want to qualify for, such as medicine and law. Those two were opened just after my university years, big change.

I am not kidding. None of my close women friends, the number adding up over all these years and I am still in email contact with most, ever said men suck. We all like them, including lesbian clients I had. Well, they somewhat less, eh.

One of my painter friends, if you saw a painting in her series about child molestation, you'd take her as rad, brash, loud, horrible, a man hater. No, she likes most men including her lover/partner(s) over the years, and that was her most far out subject matter in a long career.

Your generalizing is grounded in old stuff and I can see why you feel the way you do. I just plain disagree re the judgement on the rest of us.

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@ossobuco,

Quote:

I am not kidding. None of my close women friends, the number adding up over all these years and I am still in email contact with most, ever said men suck. We all like them, including lesbian clients I had. Well, they somewhat less,

And most women dont hate men, and most women dont want men to be oppressed. The problem is that the elite who drive policy generally do, and that the majority of women, who are good fair people, stay silent. Only women can end this oppression of men, and it has to be done by denouncing those who have taken control of feminism and this country. When men do it we simply get dismissed as women haters.

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@hawkeye10,

Well, to the extent you are right (I don't know) re who the policy makers are that matter and if those policy makers are dead wrong (I could agree, maybe, or not), then they should be fought.

Me, I've fought a lot on much, sometimes with success, and backed neighborhood people I knew well as candidates. One is a now retired assembly woman, and another the present secretary of state of california. They both knew my views back in the days. I was involved.

Now I watch.

But - I still don't get your large flumes about everything being set anti-boy or anti-men. I think you are taking isolated stuff and puffing it up to the state of the world.

Adds - this young man had big problems as a young boy, not easy problems to just solve. Long before evil school districts could get him down.

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Serves these women right. Imagine turning down sex with a man.Now there's consequences. Yup

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A man in Stockton, California allegedly fired eight rounds from a 9mm handgun at three women who refused to have sex with him and his friends.

According to Stockton Police, the women had accompanied the three men to their home around 1:45 a.m. Saturday morning. The men asked to have sex with them, but the women refused. At that point, Stockton Police Department Public Information Officer Joseph Silva told ThinkProgress, the men demanded that the women immediately leave, and as they were doing so, one of the men opened fire.

The suspected gunman, Keith Binder, is believed to have fired eight rounds at the women, but none of them hit their intended target. The women took shelter in a nearby Buffalo Wild Wings, where they called the police.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/26/police-search-for-california-man-who-shot-at-3-women-who-refused-to-have-sex-with-him/

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@FOUND SOUL,

I find it disturbing that Elliot's own parents, Mother I believed, was concerned enough that Elliot was tipped over the edge and may do something crazy that she called the Mental Health Authorities who in turn called the Police.

Not one, but 7 Police attended his apartment. Not one but 7 decided to allow him to speak to them at his door, he convinced them he was fine, nothing for them to worry about and so, they left.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/elliot-rodger-slipped-through-police-check-a-month-before-killing-spree-20140526-zro0v.html

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A month before 22-year-old California student Elliot Rodger's violent knife and gun rampage through the coastal university town of Isla Vista which left seven dead and more than a dozen injured, he opened his front door and was confronted by police.

A team of seven officers had been sent in response to a call from his family to a mental health agency, concerned about remarks he had made in a series of video diary postings on social media.

"I had the striking and devastating fear that someone had somehow discovered what I was planning to do, and reported me for it," Rodger wrote in a detailed document he left in his apartment prior to his killing spree.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/elliot-rodger-slipped-through-police-check-a-month-before-killing-spree-20140526-zro0v.html#ixzz32rJIeMSJ
In the document he wrote of his fear the police would search his apartment the day they came knocking. If they had, he wrote, they would have "found all of my guns and weapons, along with my writings about what I plan to do with them.

"I would have been thrown in jail, denied of the chance to exact revenge on my enemies. I can't imagine a hell darker than that. Thankfully, that wasn't the case, but it was so close."

Quote:

Santa Barbara County Sheriff Bill Brown confirmed that his department had contacted Rodger on three occasions, including the welfare check that Rodger detailed in his "manifesto".

On each occasion, Sheriff Brown said, Rodger presented as polite and courteous. "At the time the deputies interacted with him, he was able to convince them that he was OK," Sheriff Brown said.

Rodger, meanwhile, detailed the effort he went to convincing the officers that there was no cause for alarm.

Students gather for a candlelight vigil on the University of California Santa Barbara campus.
Students gather for a candlelight vigil on the University of California Santa Barbara campus. Photo: AFP

"The police interrogated me outside for a few minutes, asking me if I had suicidal thoughts. I tactfully told them that it was all a misunderstanding, and they finally left," he wrote. "For a few horrible seconds I thought it was all over. When they left, the biggest wave of relief swept over me."

In the "manifesto" Rodger said he also intended to kill his brother - "denying him of the chance to grow up to surpass me" - and stepmother. Rodger intended to plan the killings while his father was away, "so, thankfully, I won't have to deal with him."

Ultimately, his rage claimed seven lives including his own: Rodger stabbed three men to death in his apartment, and shot two women and a fourth man as he drove through Isla Vista. He took his own life during an exchange of gunfire with police.

With no criminal record, and no record of being institutionalised - details which might have prevented him from legally acquiring weapons - Rodger was able to legally purchase the three semi-automatic handguns used in the killings: two Sig Sauers and one Glock.

When police searched his vehicle, they unearthed a cache of more than 400 unspent rounds

His initial intentions were to kill his house mates. He did that. To bring others inside under false pretence and kill them, I don't think that occurred.

Then to kill his Step-Mother and half Brother. It appears though that this only didn't occur because they were out for dinner with friends that night, the night he chose. I wonder if they feel "lucky" now.

They are suggesting that he didn't just use knives either on his flat mates, so it appears that he really was trying to take their heads with him and roll them down the street. That part is not a part of someone with a small mental illness.

They are also stating he was never diagnosed with any illness but they sent him to counselling whereby their intentions were to have the Counsels be-friend him for the most part. He did bond with a woman counsellor but she moved away.

The parents state that the person in the video they did not know. That was a confident person. Their son, would not interact and chose to look down at the floor for the most part.

I have no doubt he has / had a mental illness of some form, killing is one thing. Deciding to decapitate is another. Feeling that all women should be in a camp, (Grandfather, the photographer, German Camps), below him where he could see, them dying of starvation until there was no woman left on this earth is fantasy. But, to believe therefore, guys would never want sex again? That is delusional.

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@panzade,

Of course it's going to be taken as their fault for assuming this might be an okay occasion to talk about stuff and flirt and maybe get on down if that worked out. But no, they walked in the door and asked for it.

Cripes.

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@FOUND SOUL,

My main quiver and quibble here (aside from horror at the whole thing) is why the police were not getting a warrant. I can see why they didn't, the kid was slick, and they can't just fast warrant every episode in their days and nights of work.

I hate to bring this up, but was his place not looked at further because he was white/asian, well spoken? I think their response was normal, apropo re what they then knew.

I don't know the limits of where police can just peek in these situations.

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@firefly,

Quote:

fem·i·nism
noun \ˈfe-mə-ˌni-zəm\

: the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities

Just because a group of people define a movement with something that they make up, does NOT make it a fact. Sociology 101, I can start ANY movement I choose and define it however the hell I please, regardless of whether I practice what I preach.

Your posts seem to be more of this warped view that somehow this one man is representative of ALL men. And that men must be "taught to respect women more" or some such propaganda. Please read this article, it explains how even RAINN (the rape, abuse, & incest national network), the country's largest anti-sexual violence organization has concluded that the culture we live in is demonizing young men.

http://time.com/30545/its-time-to-end-rape-culture-hysteria/

Feminism is ABSOLUTELY at just as much fault for frustrations that lead to anger and violence as any "misogyny" (which you seem to be implying is just something all men inherently have) is.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Just for shits and grins compare how current mens rights leaders are viewed by the establishment with how feminists of the 1950's were viewed by the establishment back then.

" their nuts"

"what are they complaining about, they have it good"

" they are dangerous"

"they should be ignored"

" it is a good thing that most of gender D is not like them!"

" your gender D partner is not like them. right?"

WOW.

This is a POWERFUL argument hawkeye. Just WOW.

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@FOUND SOUL,

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Smile There's a story behind my user name.

What's the story??? Smile

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@nononono,

You apparently have no actual knowledge of the history. Some of us here do, and also don't just hate men.

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@vikorr,

vikorr, I would STRONGLY argue that the men's rights movement is a very positive step in the direction of fighting powerlessness. It's about empowering men and reminding them that they have worth as human beings.

Conversely feminism is about allowing yourself to feel victimized and allowing yourself to believe that any personal faults are solely due "oppression" caused by big bad men.

Like if a woman does pornography she's somehow being "objectified" by men. Like some big bad man is holding a gun to her head and forcing her to do it. It of course has nothing to do with her getting paid to do it because she CHOSE to do it.

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@hawkeye10,

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Please, During the mid 80's I was slightly connected to a band of radical lesbian feminists at University who were very clear that they had no use for men. A couple from the band lived in the same housing co-op I did. They even took me to a gay club one night, as one of the ones I lived with kind of liked me for my advanced thinking (I was then a stanch advocate for feminism , at a place and in a time when few men were). I got the joy of having some drinks with them as they flirted with each other and talked about how much men suck.

So, because you met some radical lesbian feminists in the 1980's who talked about "how much men suck," you illogically concluded they represented all feminists then, and still represent all feminists now. Rolling Eyes

All feminists are not lesbians, and all lesbians do not hate men. Your inaccurate stereotypes are cartoon-like. All feminists do not hate men. Your grossly over-generalized thinking leads you to absurd conclusions.

Feminists are those believe in equality of rights and opportunity--and men who share that view, would, therefore, also be considered "feminists", and many men would describe themselves as being "feminists".

Elliot Rodger was not the victim of "feminism"--or any sort of "gender inequality"--his thinking seems to have been perverted by sexist/misogynistic views of woman, sex, and male "entitlements" to such things, and those kinds of views are transmitted from one group of males to another.

And those sexist/misogynist views, unfortunately, dove-tailed with his psychiatric problems and the social difficulties that problems, like Asperger's syndrome, created for him. He was socially hampered by Asperger's, but his sexist/misogynist views were really what twisted his thinking, and he delusionally began blaming women for his difficulties functioning socially.

He was driven to a murderous rage because he saw his lack of acquiring such male-defined entitlements--beautiful, hot women and sex with them--as a massive injustice to him, for which he would gain revenge by showing he was "the real Alpha male" by his capacity to destroy life--his capacity to destroy both the women who denied him his alleged "male entitlements", as well as the other men he both envied and despised for gaining those alleged "male entitlements".

That's crazy, delusional paranoid thinking. And it wasn't caused by "feminism" or "gender inequality".

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@firefly,

No, but because I have been a bit in the inside I have a more sensitive bullshit meter than do most with which to detect feminist propaganda. Bill has the same advantage. Most people in the USSR believed what they had been taught right up to the final years of collapse, I was recently reading the account of a North Korean defector who was once fairly senior in the government, he did not figure out that he had lied to till well into his twenties.

Propganda works, it works especially well if you can either corrupt or silience science, and the feminists excell at it. We might have had a fighting chance to avoid this disaster if we still had a function fourth estate, but after the run up to the Iraq invastion trying to claim that we do does not pass the smell test.

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@ossobuco,

Quote:

My main quiver and quibble here (aside from horror at the whole thing) is why the police were not getting a warrant. I can see why they didn't, the kid was slick, and they can't just fast warrant every episode in their days and nights of work.

In April, when his parents called the police to check on him, they may have only been concerned that he might be suicidal. He was talking about feeling lonely, isolated, rejected, etc. He probably never gave any indication of thinking about wanting to hurt others, and his parents' concern might have been that he'd harm himself.

So there likely was no need for the police to get a warrant or to search his apartment. They spoke to him, and he seemed all right.

He knew how to conceal things. He seems not to have revealed his murderous thoughts and plans to anyone until just before he acted on them. By then, it was too late for anyone to stop him.

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@firefly,

Quote:

Feminists are those believe in equality of rights and opportunity

If that's true then why do they spend all their time demonizing men. Why have they created this fallacy that we live in a "rape culture" and used that to treat ALL young men as potential rapists?

And by the way the women who died in this tragedy are being held as martyrs, and the men who died just happened to be "unlucky". Even though he killed 4 men (double the amount of women killed). The media has royally warped this with the help of feminism. And it will be used to FURTHER denigrate men just because they were born with a penis.

If feminism was really about equality, the word itself WOULD NOT be exclusionary.

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@panzade,

Quote:

Serves these women right. Imagine turning down sex with a man.Now there's consequences. Yup

And how about the young woman who was recently stabbed to death in her high school by the boy whose prom invitation she declined. It's not just about turning down sex, it wasn't safe for her to just turn down a date.

Some people are dealing with rejection by turning to murder. Elliot Rodger couldn't get a date, or get himself laid, so look what he turned to. And it does have to do with a sense of entitlement--that's what justifies the irrational rage when the alleged entitlement isn't gained.

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

Quote:
Serves these women right. Imagine turning down sex with a man.Now there's consequences. Yup

And how about the young woman who was recently stabbed to death in her high school by the boy whose prom invitation she declined. It's not just about turning down sex, it wasn't safe for her to just turn down a date.

Some people are dealing with rejection by turning to murder. Elliot Rodger couldn't get a date, or get himself laid, so look what he turned to. And it does have to do with a sense of entitlement--that's what justifies the irrational rage when the alleged entitlement isn't gained.

I could post all the cases where women kill their menx I am sure I could find 30 a day, and then argue that women are on a rampage against men .

But I am better than you.

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@nononono,

Quote:

And by the way the women who died in this tragedy are being held as martyrs, and the men who died just happened to be "unlucky". Even though he killed 4 men (double the amount of women killed). The media has royally warped this with the help of feminism

I haven't seen any difference in how the victims are being regarded in the media--they are all the victims of a senseless tragedy, and that's how the media is regarding them.

The two women were in front of a sorority house, which he was targeting, based on his writings, the man does seem to have been caught in rather random firing at a store. They were all "unlucky".

The media is reporting the sexist/misogynist rantings that Elliot Rodger revealed in his 141 page autobiographical document--those do describe his motives. So, his sexist/misogynist views are hardly irrelevant to the news coverage of this crime. And those views will provoke discussion in the media, just as they have provoked discussion of those views in this thread.

Neither the media nor feminism have warped anything. This guy held sexist/misogynist views and he wanted them to become public--that's why he wrote them down over a long period of time, and e-mailed them out, just before he went on his killing spree. His views were his justification for his murderous acts.

My hunch is that he killed his roommates because they became aware of what he was about to do, and he didn't want to be stopped. That's why he didn't shoot them, other people might have heard a gun shot, and that would have stopped him. I don't believe his 141 page document mentioned his roommates, or revealed any grudges he held against them. They likely just became collateral damage as he headed for his real targets.

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