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Precognition in a deterministic universe

 
 
Reply Fri 9 May, 2014 11:41 am
Having met two foremost experts in the field of clairvoyance, my current conclusion is that precognition is in fact genuine. My philosophical theory is that the phenomenon is sensation-inputs, rather than any form of linjear description, alas, it's not testable in a lab. You can't decide, now I am going to be psychic! it comes to you... like emotions.

Having said that - being a determinist, how would one square the fact of insight into future events with a mechanical universe? The universe would not allow precognitive insight in one situation over another, makes no sense. It would in principle be possible to always gain precognitive insight, or never precognitive insight, given the mechanical universe.

But what then accounts for the fact when they do occur, and when they don't? It would seem arbitrary. Yet precognitive insight could influence the future events---(all of this could be deterministically how the universe would end up)

If you are interested in hearing about why I am utterly convinced by the reality of precognition, your welcome to ask me here or privately. The purpose of this debate is to make sense of why it does not allways occur.

Go by the premise of it being possible, and then make sense of why it manifest itself in one event over another?


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Type: Discussion • Score: 13 • Views: 7,602 • Replies: 111

 
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Fri 9 May, 2014 05:11 pm
@spacetime89,
Quote:

Fri 9 May, 2014 12:41 pm
Having met two foremost experts in the field of clairvoyance
I think I need read no further
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 May, 2014 05:12 pm
@spacetime89,
what do I wish to know about precognition?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 May, 2014 05:33 pm
I just knew someone would post this.
0 Replies
 
spacetime89
 
  1  
Reply Fri 9 May, 2014 08:44 pm
Since none of you take my proposition seriously, I will hearby let you guys know.

The psychic claim:

1 I was born lonely, live lonely, and is basicially a lonely individual( my apperance is concidered above average, so he couldn't make a judgement from that). I do have some friends, but they aren't deep connections. I mostly stay to myself.

Statement 1 is , my apperance nonwithstanding, correct.

2. Says that my grandfather was evil, and laughed at my mother


Statement 2 is correct. My grandfather was not only evil, but an alcoholic. It was a mess. My mother was in some ways "traumatised" from her childhood. Now, would that be a wise thing to say to your client, if it just so happens that my grandfather was a nice man? The psychic would have made a fool of himself, and lost all trust.


3. Mentions that I love physics and astronomy. Furthemore elaborates in detail how my brain works - an ability to tell people off, very quick razor sharp mind, sometimes being, in his word "too mean".

Statement 3 is, once again, correct. My favourite subject is physics, and I do posses a quick, witty, sometimes mean way of putting people in their place".

All of this directed to the one and same client. He was given no information before hand. We shook hands before the session began. He had 30 mins before the reading. I did not speak to him at any point.

Could you expect more from a human? I would say that was pretty impressive.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 9 May, 2014 08:48 pm
Wanna buy a bridge?
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 02:25 am
@spacetime89,
spacetime89 wrote:
1 I was born lonely, live lonely, and is basicially a lonely individual( my apperance is concidered above average, so he couldn't make a judgement from that). I do have some friends, but they aren't deep connections. I mostly stay to myself.

They saw you coming. Like gipsy fortune-tellers etc, they know that people who approach them with money for "answers" usually have anxiety or personality problems of various types and are adept at recognising them.

Quote:
2. Says that my grandfather was evil, and laughed at my mother

See above.

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 02:55 am
There is also the fallacy of the enumeration of favorable circumstances. Those who wish to believe that something is true will ignore evidence to the contrary, and focus on anything which seems to confirm their belief. As Contrex points out, such people are adept at manipulating the willful believer, and often get much of their "information" by inference while chatting before they make their "reading." My favorite analogy of this fallacy is to note that about 1200 people have attempted to guess my astrological sign in my lifetime--one hundred of them guessed it correctly!
0 Replies
 
spacetime89
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 04:15 am
The point is not isolated statements, but all of them combined.

He later had a private session with my mother, about 6 months later (mine was not private with him). He had nothing but negative thing to say about her life . "Dont' commit yourself to anything" was his advice. The psychic claimed her life was a series of traumas. She countered that she had just bought a dog, and was optimistic about trying to do some work with dogs. He had this to say about that: "that's a type of dog you put to rest"..

As it turned out, the dog had genetic autoimmune disorder, and only a month or two later was forced to be put to rest, to my mothers great dispair. She cried ALOTH.

My mother mentioned me to the psychic at the end of the session, that I have met him. About me it was only about high intelligence, and that I suffer from serious anxiety attacks, but is a good boy for still fighting. But I will make it, I will eventually do brilliantly. My mother however would never land a serious job again, according to the psychic. She resented him for saying the latter...

The psychic used no cards. He only shook hands.
0 Replies
 
spacetime89
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 04:38 am
Psych9c also told her she is going to move to a specific city soon. She laughed at the mere suggestion. It's a very small city, were only young students live - a university city. And the psychich DID mention the city by name. No ambiguity.

Once again, as it happened, me leaving the apartment, she had no choice but to accept a new cheaper appartment, and it was in the city she had no interest to live in, but for ec0nomical reasons had to accept.

It was the city the psychic had told her she would move to. It happened around 6 months later, after him telling her.

It was supposed to be my apartment, but I ended up somewhere else:=) And my mother had to live somewhere, with less money, and needed cheaper rent..

Getting an apartment in the city my mother got was close to impossible for an average joe, it's very attractive for students. She laughed with me, about him telling her that. She got it through online, swapping her apartment. A place originally intentioned for me. But I got a place in my native town, and did not want to leave our city.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 06:34 am
@spacetime89,
I believe all "clairvoyants" and the rest of their ilk are hucksters.

They have a gift or talent if you will and it is to read the body language of their marks.

It's all tricks, and there is always a rational explanation, beyond "they must be able to talk to spirits or see into the future."

Surely if even one of these charlatans was legitimate, there would be respected evidence of their talent, and not simply "how could they know that!"
spacetime89
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 07:12 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Unlike you, I dont have default opinions on precognition. I go by the evidence presented from my own experience. The evidence in this particular case is overwhelming. There is no other criteria than accurately telling past and future events. Past events is retrocognition.

Theres a bunch of charlatans, preying on the weak. But this psychic had nothing positive to say to my mother. He does not care about money more than a doctor does. But if his talent is in clairvoyance,its witnin his right to charge money for it.

Or you think doctors and lawyers should work for free as well??




farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 07:29 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
I knew last night, that you would post the word "Huckster".
Now, of we could only stop you from pulling that train robbery
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 07:39 am
Princess Diana was pictured flying in by helicopter to visit her personal clairvoyant at a country house a couple of weeks before she was killed.
I'd have thought the clairvoyant would have told her "On no account go driving round with your boyfriend in Paris late at night"
0 Replies
 
spacetime89
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 07:50 am
You cannot prevent future events. The events already exist, if it they didn,t there would be nothing to precognize. And even if that psychic was legit and did precognize the event,there would be no means to avoid it, since psychological states are also deterministic.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 07:53 am
@spacetime89,
spacetime89 wrote:
You cannot prevent future events. The events already exist, if it they didn,t there would be nothing to precognize.

Alternatively, since the future is not yet determined, precognition is impossible.
spacetime89
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 08:00 am
@contrex,
Yes, I would say so. Einsteins theory of relativity and clock experiments have on the other hand demonstrated how time is not universal. And without objective time ticking down , no uncertainty would exist.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 08:03 am
@spacetime89,
spacetime89 wrote:

Yes, I would say so. Einsteins theory of relativity and clock experiments have on the other hand demonstrated how time is not universal. And without objective time ticking down , no uncertainty would exist.


They have shown that time passes at different rates in different places, depending on acceleration, etc, but they have not shown that time does not exist, which is what you seem to be saying.
spacetime89
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 08:12 am
@contrex,
http://www.kiekeben.com/relativistic.html

Perhaps this would clarify my point. Make of that what you will. Mathematicans such as Penrose claim its a valid argument.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 May, 2014 03:17 pm
I once lost an arm wrestling contest to a guy with a size 8 hat. I could tell in advance he would be trouble.

And then there were the times mom caught me with my hands in the cookie jar. She always knew!
 

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