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Precognition in a deterministic universe

 
 
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2014 02:48 pm
@spacetime89,
Precognition and determinism are apples and oranges. One is cause and effect, the other is unprovable theory.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2014 03:06 pm
@Rickoshay75,
Careful there mate...I am one of the advocates of causality but even I wouldn't dare to say causality is provable. It is not. It assumes relation instead of coincidence. It is just as unprovable as anything else.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2014 03:10 pm
@spacetime89,
What you are saying amounts to say that because causal mechanics is true there are no rare events...obviously it is wrong. A simplification regarding the critical mass of needed variables so a mechanical process can cause something regularly.
Now I am not even addressing pre cognition per se as a justified example but just the underlying logic you were applying there.
0 Replies
 
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jul, 2014 02:38 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Mathematical framework? Ah-hahahahahahahahaha . . .

We have no reason to believe that any of this is true, just because you say it is. Even if you believe it is true, it is entirely possible that you and your mother have convinced yourselves after the fact.


True, we are all unintentionally brainwashed by our parents to a certain extent and we are stuck with it the rest of our lives.

"The truth of things will not comply with our conceits, and our interests. Our belief or disbelief of a thing does not alter the nature of thingsā€ Tillotson
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jul, 2014 03:42 pm
@spacetime89,
Quote:
Go by the premise of it being possible, and then make sense of why it manifest itself in one event over another?


It is said that we humans only consciously perceive a small fragment of all the information our senses actually absorb. Most of it is trimmed away, and only that which is useful and serves to give us a coherent perception of reality is consciously experienced.
What happens to the rest? It gets into our brains, though not into our minds. Or perhaps it gets into our minds as well, and perhaps they sometimes manifest as little premonitions.

But if so it is not prior to the thing actually happening. Only prior to us being aware that we perceive it.

I have had experiences where I 'knew' something was going to happen, while I could not point to any reason or indication that it should, and then it actually happened. My explanation is that I've picked something up sub-consciously, and that it somehow bleeds through into my conscious mind as a strong impression that comes seemingly out of nowhere.

Another way it can happen is if something happens quickly or takes you by surprise. Afterward you might remember with events not necessarily in the order they actually happened in, which can lead to the illusion of precognition.

Once we played a prank on my brother. He was sleeping, and we decided to wake him up with a loud (but harmless) explosion.
It said BOOM, and a second later he tore open the bedroom door to find us laughing in the hallway. He said that he'd been dreaming that he was driving a car. When he heard the explosion he had dreamed that it was his tire blowing up.
The explosion woke him up, so how could he have dreamed that? It is because the chronological order of events we remember doesn't always form immediately. Sometimes it comes about after the fact, so to speak, when we revisit it in our thoughts, trying to sort it out.
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jul, 2014 07:30 pm
@Cyracuz,
I like the twilight Zone...do I qualify?
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jul, 2014 04:09 am
Years ago I was home alone up in my room while the rest of the family had gone shopping in town.
I heard them come back in the evening, but when I went down to greet them they weren't there. Later they came back for real.
I found out from a supernatural book that the phenomenon is quite common and even has a name- 'False Arrival'.
Maybe it's a timeslip of some sort, I dunno..
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jul, 2014 10:46 am
@Germlat,
For what?
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jul, 2014 11:28 am
@Cyracuz,
I guess for appreciating a great imagination .
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Jul, 2014 11:50 am
@Germlat,
Feel free. If you are referring to the contents of my post you have the right idea about the weight one should lend my words.
Germlat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jul, 2014 04:28 pm
@Cyracuz,
At least you're honest...I can respect that.
0 Replies
 
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Aug, 2014 01:46 pm
@spacetime89,
spacetime89 wrote:

Having met two foremost experts in the field of clairvoyance, my current conclusion is that precognition is in fact genuine. My philosophical theory is that the phenomenon is sensation-inputs, rather than any form of linjear description, alas, it's not testable in a lab. You can't decide, now I am going to be psychic! it comes to you... like emotions.

Having said that - being a determinist, how would one square the fact of insight into future events with a mechanical universe? The universe would not allow precognitive insight in one situation over another, makes no sense. It would in principle be possible to always gain precognitive insight, or never precognitive insight, given the mechanical universe.

But what then accounts for the fact when they do occur, and when they don't? It would seem arbitrary. Yet precognitive insight could influence the future events---(all of this could be deterministically how the universe would end up)

If you are interested in hearing about why I am utterly convinced by the reality of precognition, your welcome to ask me here or privately. The purpose of this debate is to make sense of why it does not allways occur.

Go by the premise of it being possible, and then make sense of why it manifest itself in one event over another?





Que sera, sera, whatever will be, will be. The future's not ours to see, que sera sera, what will be will be. Old Doris Day song
0 Replies
 
 

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