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HERE's ANOTHER ONE LIKE THE ZIMMERMAN CASE

 
 
Reply Fri 21 Mar, 2014 06:59 pm

A maintenance worker spent two nights in jail after he fatally shot
two teens involved in brutally beating him with a baseball bat last
Wednesday in the stairwell of the apartment building where he works.
Some are outraged over the idea of the man facing possible homicide
charges for what they believe was a straightforward act of self-defense,
while others are upset over the shooting death of the two teens involved.

The afternoon of the incident in question, the 39-year-old maintenance
worker, whose name has not been released, was changing the locks
on an apartment in which the resident was being evicted when three
suspects happened upon him.

“Apparently, these people were mad that a friend of theirs was
getting evicted. They thought – apparently – that he was the manager,”
Bob Braun, who lives in the apartment building and is a friend of the
maintenance worker, told a local Fox affiliate the day after the
incident occurred.

Apparently the trio was so outraged that two of them held the man down
while the third began beating him with a baseball bat. It was at that
point that the man, who has a valid concealed carry permit, pulled
out his legally owned handgun and shot two of the three suspects.

A man who was at a nearby furniture store told reporters that he went
inside when he heard the commotion, but when he heard screams he
ran to the apartment building where he saw two of the suspects,
17-year-old Anmarie Miller and 19-year-old James Bell Jr., lying in the
stairwell. The man said the maintenance worker’s face was covered in
blood and he looked confused.

Miller and Bell, who were a couple with two small children, were
pronounced dead at the scene.

The maintenance worker was transported to a local hospital where
he received treatment for the injuries he sustained during the attack.

But once released from the hospital, the man was taken to the
Milwaukee County Jail where he faced two possible counts of first-
degree intentional homicide.

The third suspect involved in the beating, a man in his early 20s
whose name has not been released, was also taken into custody for
a possible substantial battery charge.

A vigil was held for the teens who were shot, as community leaders
called for change and an end to violence.

A vigil was held for the teens who were shot, as community leaders
called for change and an end to violence.

However, on Friday, two days after the incident, both the victim and
the suspect were released from jail. Neither man are charged at this point,
but the investigation is ongoing. Ultimately the decision to press
charges – against either individual – will come from the District Attorney.

Meanwhile, friends and family of the teens held a vigil Thursday evening
outside of the apartment building where they were shot and killed.
Not all of those acquainted with the teens are sure of the events
which transpired leading up to their deaths.

“He wasn’t a bad kid. It’s just – everybody makes bad decisions in
their life. Things don’t go as planned. I wish the outcome would’ve
been better,” said Devonte Coleman, a friend of Bell.

Joseph Hearns Jr. came to the scene of the shooting Wednesday in
an effort to get some answers.

“The young man was my nephew’s son, and she was his baby’s mother,”
Hearns said, adding, “I heard so many sides of it so I’m not sure what
to believe at this point.”

However, authorities confirmed that the entire incident – the beating,
as well as the shooting – was caught on video, which is being reviewed
as part of the investigation.

David Guerrero, Miller’s cousin, told reporters that he’s hoping the
video can be looked over to “get some answers.”

“She has two babies and it’s just – she won’t be there now,” Guerrero said.
“We will help support those children. I lost a family member, and
that’s all my concern is right now.”

While authorities aren’t commenting on either charges or a possible
defense while the investigation is ongoing, some say it’s just a simple
case of self-defense. There’s even rumors of the possibility of
invoking the Castle Doctrine as a means of defense since the
maintenance worker was at his place of employment when the
incident occurred, deeming it suitable that the shooting would fall
under that statute.

“In all self-defense situations, a person may use that degree of force
necessary to repel the force against them,” said local attorney Alex Flynn.
“The Castle Doctrine says you can use force presumptively if it’s your
home, car or business. Now, this is where he worked,” he added.

“As we get to the bottom of both the assault and the shooting, we’ll
determine what the appropriate outcome is,” said Milwaukee Police
Chief Edward Flynn.
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 21 Mar, 2014 07:03 pm

The CRITICAL consideration: the RACE of the defender
has been withheld by the press. IF he is a black, then he will be safe.
Al Sharpton n Jesse Jackson will take no interest,
but if he is a white, then thay will be most vocally LOUD.

Let 's wait and see.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Mar, 2014 09:51 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
This seems to be a clear self-defense case. The police should be sanctioned for arresting the shooter.

Dave, I am afraid that you are correct in saying that the shooter will be in great danger if he is white.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 21 Mar, 2014 10:01 pm
@Advocate,
Yes. A different jury, ruled by its emotions,
woud have convicted Zimmerman, regardless of how illogical that 'd be.
The same here. Let 's see if we hear from Al Sharpton.

It is theoretically possible (tho I dont think likely)
that if he were convicted, inasmuch as the USSC
ruled that the central core element of the 2 A is self defense,
the USSC might take an appeal for violation of his 2nd Amendment rights.





David
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2014 03:42 am
@OmSigDAVID,
This seems altogether different than the Zimmermn circumstances. Caught on video, a man ias being beaten an he pulls and fires to efend himself. If that's the evidence, then he was acting clearly in self defense.

I think any case in which lives are lot needs a higher standard of review than just a newspaper or a bbb bullshit session.
"Not having him pass a serious investigation with a conclusive determination, be it a court decision or a statement from the DA in charge, is what must be concluded.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2014 04:22 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
This seems altogether different than the Zimmerman circumstances. Caught on video, a man is being beaten an he pulls and fires to defend himself. If that's the evidence, then he was acting clearly in self defense.

Aside from the video, that is exactly the same circumstances.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2014 07:41 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
This seems altogether different than the Zimmermn circumstances.
Caught on video, a man ias being beaten an he pulls and fires to efend himself.
If that's the evidence, then he was acting clearly in self defense.
In order for self defense to be deemed an adequate
legal defense by al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson,
the defender must be a black. If the defender is a white,
then it is racist bigotry to defend himself from the black.
That 's the whole point of the Zimmerman prosecution
and it is the reason that the Republican governor
fired the local D.A. and put in his hand-picked replacement.
I dunno whether obama extorted him or not; it looks fishy.


farmerman wrote:
I think any case in which lives are lot needs a higher standard
of review than just a newspaper or a bbb bullshit session.
"Not having him pass a serious investigation with a conclusive determination,
be it a court decision or a statement from the DA
in charge, is what must be concluded.
When someone becomes a victim of criminal brutality,
that is bad enuf. I reject the position of the left that government
shud make it WORSE by busting the victim's gonads.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2014 07:42 am
@oralloy,

farmerman wrote:
This seems altogether different than the Zimmerman circumstances. Caught on video, a man is being beaten an he pulls and fires to defend himself. If that's the evidence, then he was acting clearly in self defense.
oralloy wrote:
Aside from the video, that is exactly the same circumstances.
Yes. Obviously.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2014 07:44 am
@farmerman,
Farmer,
did u see the video??

Can u identify the race
of the defender ?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2014 08:27 am
@OmSigDAVID,
the video is evidence that , unlike eyewitness, is forensically unassailable (with a QA from a videography forensic specialist who can verify the "questioned nature" of the real evidence)
Zimmerman was a lot of hearsay that was sustained. The issue of whether or not Zimmerman was stalking nd inciting an innocent hd never been presented with any credibility(either way). All the innuendo against MARTIN WAS imho totl bullshit.
he was doing "drnk" (no chemical dt supports any of that.
Zimmermmn was a botched up pos case that hd not better represent Floridan law for all our sakes.

This case needs no other evidence to sum it up IMHO. To show someone breaking and beating a victim with a weapon that, even in Quaker Pa, is considered lethal. (Pa's version of SYG requires an open equivalent threat by a deadly weapon that must be shown to be a defensive response (no bullets in the back 2 blocks away)
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2014 01:35 pm
@farmerman,
Did u see the race of the hapless maintenance man
that got beaten ?
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2014 03:07 pm
Can somebody spit it out and clarify once and for all what were the races of the maintenance worker and the others, or are we supposed to guess?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2014 05:01 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Dave's on one of his missions. He will have to post the video first should he wish us to view it.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2014 05:50 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDavid wrote:
However, authorities confirmed that the entire incident – the beating,as well as the shooting – was caught on video, which is being reviewed as part of the investigation.

This part of the story makes it very different from the Zimmerman case. If the camera corroberates the shooter's straight-up self-defense story, the prosecuter will leave him alone and prosecute and the surviving batter for battery. If the camera shows that the shooter gratuitously shot first, he will go to jail for murder or manslaughter. Either way, there won't be any national hand-wringing over it because of the video footage.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2014 06:48 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Dave's on one of his missions.
He will have to post the video first should he wish us to view it.
I was under the impression that u 'd seen it
and u knew whether this was a race case like the Z case, or not.
It was just an innocent question to ascertain that fact. (not a mission)
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2014 10:32 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

OmSigDavid wrote:
However, authorities confirmed that the entire incident – the beating,as well as the shooting – was caught on video, which is being reviewed as part of the investigation.

This part of the story makes it very different from the Zimmerman case. If the camera corroberates the shooter's straight-up self-defense story, the prosecuter will leave him alone and prosecute and the surviving batter for battery. If the camera shows that the shooter gratuitously shot first, he will go to jail for murder or manslaughter. Either way, there won't be any national hand-wringing over it because of the video footage.


I think that the two cases are quite similar. While there was no video in the Zim case, there was a neighbor eyewitness to Martin on top of, and pounding, Zim. There was also the wounds to Zim's face and head, and the lack of wounds on Martin. Zim had every right to pull his gun and shoot Martin before Zim was unconscious from the beating he was receiving.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sat 22 Mar, 2014 11:13 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Zimmerman was a lot of hearsay that was sustained. The issue of whether or not Zimmerman was stalking and inciting an innocent hd never been presented with any credibility(either way).

The location of the confrontation/shooting is a hard concrete fact.

That location is consistent with Mr. Zimmerman ending his pursuit at the moment the dispatcher advised that they didn't need him to do that, three minutes before the confrontation occurred.

That location is inconsistent with Mr. Zimmerman continuing to pursue Trayvon after being advised that it was unnecessary.

However, even if Mr. Zimmerman had actually continued his pursuit, that would not justify Trayvon's violent assault against him. Mr. Zimmerman would still have been within his rights to defend himself.

Also, even if continued pursuit could somehow indicate guilt, and the answer to the question of continued pursuit was unknown, the burden is on the prosecution to prove guilt. "No evidence either way" does not prove guilt.


farmerman wrote:
All the innuendo against MARTIN WAS imho totl bullshit.

It is a fact that Trayvon was caught in high school with an extremely suspicious stash of jewelry and tools that he offered no explanation for. And it is a fact that Trayvon posted on-line about taking PCP-type drugs (and taking them in a concoction involving candy and a light soda).
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Mar, 2014 12:21 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
The issue of whether or not Zimmerman was stalking
nd inciting an innocent hd never been presented with any credibility(either way).
That is irrelevant.
Whether he was following him, or not:
martin had no right to become violent.
He was the first to break the peace.
That 's what counts.



farmerman wrote:
(Pa's version of SYG requires an open equivalent threat by a deadly
weapon that must be shown to be a defensive response (no bullets
in the back 2 blocks away)
Really?? OK, how about this:
A large n heavy practioner of the black game of "Knockout"
kicks a pregnant woman in the belly for laffs, or slugs an elderly lady in the face,
but (while getting his chuckles) he shows no knife nor gun.
Do the victims have the protection of SYG of Pa. ??
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sun 23 Mar, 2014 12:58 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Really?? OK, how about this:
A large n heavy practioner of the black game of "Knockout"
kicks a pregnant woman in the belly for laffs, or slugs an elderly lady in the face,
but (while getting his chuckles) he shows no knife nor gun.
Do the victims have the protection of SYG of Pa. ??

Remember, SYG complements the traditional rules for self defense. It doesn't replace them.

All SYG does is remove the requirement to flee, if you are able to, before defending yourself.

If someone does not have the protection of SYG, they are still able to defend themselves under the normal rules.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Mar, 2014 01:24 am
@oralloy,
Yes! Absolutely Right!

It never applied to Zimmy 's case, since the predator
was sitting on his gut, slamming his head on the cement.





David
0 Replies
 
 

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