Why should I believe in the concept of god?

Derevon, The fundamental truth of our biology is that it works by the influence of chemicals. Any chemical embalance - especially near death is bound to do funny things to the brain and our perception of what we are experiencing. Just give this one some thought.

Deveron, You are absolutely correct, I do view myself as a mechanical contrivance. The fact that I am not very useful merely reflects the fact that I am the product of a series of random interactions. With no designer involved. If there was a designer, presumeably he would have designed something that would be useful to Him in His opinion at least.

I am perfectly capable of discussing you and I in merely electromechanical terms.

At this point in my education the only "Why" that I have is simply "Why do like charges repel and opposite charges attract. This, IMO, is a pretty slim God. Certainly no electrical charge would concern itself with the sexual proclivities of mammals

If one simply takes that observation, then given a little time you can build a Universe that WILL correspond to observations.

At this time I would be forced to accept that God is an electrical charge.
I have a sneaky feeling though that this arguement (God is an electrical charge) will end up in the same place as St. Francis when he attempted to define God as a "prime mover" or "first cause".

Frankly I suspect that there never was a first cause. Probably there was never a "First Charge", a "Big Bang",or a "Creation" either.

Now, since we cannot show that any of those things existed either, then where does that leave us? Wondering I suspect

Yes, Cephus, believing in God DOES make me feel better. That's because, I've FELT God's presence at certain times in my life.

Someone HAD to create the universe and all life forms, IMO. Maybe I'm wrong...maybe everything just HAPPENED. I don't know. Faith isn't logical Cephus. It's mystical and highly personal... faith defies logic. While you may consider faith a weakness and an irrational way to live one's life(and that certainly is your perogative to do so) I don't.

doglover, That's the reason why most on this planet believe as you do - that there's a god. The limitations of our brains will never allow us to find the answer to the theological question of gods, because "faith" is the essential foundation for believing; it's all guess work and emotion from there.

Faith is a peculiar animal. Placebos can be almost as effective as real medicine, if the subject "believes" they are potent.

Two personal examples:

When I lived in the frozen north, traffic backed up one icy morning on an uphill curve. Drivers had to slow down to make the corner, then spun their wheels vainly trying to make the grade. A city truck came by spewing salt; INSTANTLY, before the salt had a chance to work, cars began climbing the hill without difficulty.

Many years before that, in Junior High gym class we were required to attempt forward no-hands flips. Almost no one could do it properly, and as I was a mediocre athelete the odds were long that I would ever achieve it myself. In a moment of inspiration, I told myself that I owed it to my ancestor Ethan Allen, leader of the Revolutionary war Green Mountain Boys, to acquit myself with honor. This gave me the courage to go all out. I achieved the flip soon after, one of perhaps 6 out of the 50 kids in the class ever to do it. Several years later, my mother got interested in geneology and established that the family legend about our descent from Ethan Allen was completely false.

Faith sets the stage for a clear mind, composure, and self-confidence; but it does not matter what the object of faith is, so long as the subject believes in it. Thus, every religion (and many non-religions) are full of testimonies about the power of faith in completely contradictory gods and philosophies which are indicative of nothing beyond the innate but often poorly utilized potential of the human mind.

CI, I suspect that it is not so much the limits of our brains as it is the limits of our ambition.

As we note from some earlier posts is a lot easier to take your troubles to God than it is to try and figure out what you need and go do it.

Randomness and natural law will insure some some sort of resolution to any problem eventually. IMO prayer is just another way of saying "lets roll the dice and get on with it". Of course I note that with dice, as with prayer, the results may not be all you have wished for, but with dice or prayer it's all the "will of God". I don't have to do anything. I especially don't even have to think about it anymore .

Greyfan,
Good point. I remember reading that the African witch doctors rates of success are very similar to modern medicines. The article did not point out that there may be differing definitions of successful interventions, but apparently of those who visited a witchdoctor roughly the same percentage came away satisfied as when a modern western doctor is consulted. There is a lot in our minds and neither the Diest, Athiest, or Witch, or Doctor has any monopoly on understanding how it works.

A little thundershower just sprung up. Now I don't have to mow the lawn this afternoon. God is great :wink: But the grass will be taller tomorrow But today I don't have to think about it .

I don't remember whether it was this forum or not, but my sister's husband had Parkinsons and also had a heart attack. She prayed to god every day, and she really thought he would be brought back to health again. There was no way I could convince her otherwise. He passed away about four years ago.

CI,
That's my very point. Her prayers brought about a resolution. " Not her will but thine".

Perhaps it helped her suffering psychologically, but the resolution, whether for good or ill would have come about anyways.

How misguided it is for Christians to imagine that their God can affect an outcome when an outcome (resolution of the conflict) will come about anyways.

For instance, "Let pray for peace" one will say. So all good Diests will pray for peace.
Eventually peace will come so their prayers will have been answered.

The possible outcomes are.
Both parties to the conflict exaust themselves and are no longer capable of making war. (IranvsIraq) Peace has come. Prayers answered

One party overpowers the other and destroys the opposing government.WWII. Peace has come, Prayers answered

One party simply kills all opponents, genocide. Canann, and Sudan today.Prayers have not yet been answered completely but Allah, Jehovah, and the Wood Spirits, are trying very hard for peace

The person who is praying dies. He knows the "peace of the grave" Prayer answered

Now here is the stinker "IMO"

Pay me a salary, let me raise your children, comfort the sick, and control your government and I will show you how to pray. No, I don't guarantee results. It's in Gods hands now. Whatever He does you may be assured that it will be the best outcome. Who can claim to understand Gods reasons. Resolution is assured

It sounds like too good a business to be true ---- Now do you need a good used car Easy payments

akaMech, What I have observed has to do more with nature than it does with any diety. I look at natural disasters like earthquakes or floods; it doesn't discriminate on who dies from these disasters - no matter what their religion. Praying ain't gonna help anybody.

Ci, We agree,

Bad things happen to Diests and Athiests alike. But good things happen also. Roll the dice or pray if you can't decide. Results will be similar and can be explained satisfactorily in Quantum Mechanics if no where else.
Gods are an unfortunate distraction.

I mowed the lawn this afternoon after work. Resolved problem without bothering God .

A Diest would be likely to Thank God for the thunderstorm when he didn't feel like mowing the lawn

The definition of a deist according to dictionary.com is: " A person who believes that God created the universe and then abandoned it", so I don't think a deist would thank God for the thunderstorm.

Anyhow, I'm not a deist. Far from it, but I don't believe that God arbitrarily interfers in worldly matters to support those who do his will with worldly comforts. You are right that there are many people who pray for things material, but that is totally wrong in my opinion. "Real" prayers should be about things that concern spirit. For example, if someone has done something very evil to me, I will pray for this person and that I shall be able to forgive him/her. I would absolutely never pray for "nice weather tomorrow" or "let me win on the lottery" or anything like that.

Prayer is not a means of appeasing God, to make him spare us from various worldly unpleasantries. In my opinion, it's a "tool" for spiritual growth, helping us to overcome evil, and become more like our heavenly father.

Derevon, You should study buddhism.

Derevon, In common usage a Diests are persons that believe that Deities exist.
A Deity being regarded as something that can exist outside of natural laws.
A supreme being ,divinity, god or godhead, ie, God, Jehovah, or Allah.

Lesser Dieties would be supernatural beings subject to the Supreme Being. The Greek, Roman, Christian, and Animist theologies usually have a Supreme Being, attended by many lesser gods, angels, saints, and demons.

When one does not capitalize the word it generally refers to prominent mortals.

Consequently if you think that there is something that "cannot" be, seen percieved, or understood by mortals then you are a Deist. I was under the impression that you qualified.

I may have made some errors in the spelling. I have heard this ditty--

"I" before "e", except after "c", the other way when sounded like "a", but Atheists and Deists get to make up their own rules.

D--
I use Websters Third International Dictionary. It's got a lot more words in it and better definitions. Best

I thought a Deist was one who practiced Deism.

Me too. AkaMechsmith, you mean theist, right?

Mesquite and Derevon

Possibly do

deism - A belief in one god who started things and quit. More at Deity

deist- An adherant of deism.

deity- God, Godhead, a god or goddess, a person or thing that is exalted,
one who wields supreme power in some field.

I concede, Thiest would probably have been a better word.

Aparently a Diest believes in a Creator type entity exclusively while a Thiest is not limited at all. Also Pantheist.

I STAND CORRECTED Thanks

That a god would quit has never occurred to me.

Derevon writes:


Much has been made of the deistic faith held by some of the U.S.'s founding fathers. When looking at what several of them wrote and their view of religion's role in society, I think most practiced what I call the "Oh God!" form of Deism which is a kind of non interference but not exactly abandonment. ("Oh God" from the now aged movie of that name with George Burns playing the title role.) There the theology was basically that God created a universe that works and it is up to humankind to live in a manner that allows it to work. God is watching but he rarely interferes.

Some might suggest that a practical God would just spell out exactly what we are supposed to do in any given situation. That might make it easier, but it seems to me humans as a group aren't really very good at taking directions or learning from experience yet.

Fox's quote, "Some might suggest that a practical God would just spell out exactly what we are supposed to do in any given situation. That might make it easier, but it seems to me humans as a group aren't really very good at taking directions or learning from experience yet." And I would only add, "with or without god or religion."