What would A2K philosophers say while sitting on a bench?

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

That's not what was being done. We were discussing the fact that I treat the word "know" differently when discussing issues in an Internet forum...than when in casual everyday conversation.

Actually we were talking of intuition, and whether it is a path towards knowledge or not. You said no without examining why, then started this tangent about different levels of discourse (to put it as positively as I can). Maybe you were trying to establish whether the discussion was about the real world or 'philosophical'?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
That's not what was being done. We were discussing the fact that I treat the word "know" differently when discussing issues in an Internet forum...than when in casual everyday conversation.

Actually we were talking of intuition, and whether it is a path towards knowledge or not. You said no without examining why, then started this tangent about different levels of discourse (to put it as positively as I can). Maybe you were trying to establish whether the discussion was about the real world or 'philosophical'?

Perhaps you would be kind enough to let my words speak for themselves rather than doing your usual hatchet job of paraphrasing.

Links to whatever you are talking about would be in order.

If you want links to where I aver that I treat the word "know" differently when in everyday conversation from when I am in a discussion in the philosophy forum...I will be glad to provide them.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

But to be honest, Olivier...you are continuing to make this a huge thing (which you accused me of doing)...so my suggestion that you stop while you are behind....still holds.

0 Replies

Let's clear this up:

Quote:

Standard Definition
know
nō/
verb
1.
be aware of through observation, inquiry, or information.
"most people know that CFCs can damage the ozone layer"
synonyms: be aware, realize, be conscious, be informed; notice, perceive, see, sense, recognize; informal : be clued in, savvy
"who knows I'm here?"

Just tell us how 'know' is different in philosophical discussion.

Then we will know.
Joe(I'm not going to guess)Nation

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank wrote:

Out in the "real world"...we are not thinking about whether or not it is the real world or a illusion...we are trying to get past the next semi without getting edged off the road. ..we are counting our dollars to be sure we have food next week.

But, of course you must 'know' the bible was written to be understood from just that point of view.

1 Reply

@Joe Nation,

Joe Nation wrote:

Let's clear this up:

Quote:
Standard Definition
know
nō/
verb
1.
be aware of through observation, inquiry, or information.
"most people know that CFCs can damage the ozone layer"
synonyms: be aware, realize, be conscious, be informed; notice, perceive, see, sense, recognize; informal : be clued in, savvy
"who knows I'm here?"

Just tell us how 'know' is different in philosophical discussion.

Then we will know.
Joe(I'm not going to guess)Nation

Joe...why are you here? Normally you are not in discussions that deal with philosophy.

Why are you not crying on a train somewhere?

Why are you not discussing that sentimental crap you normally discuss?

Whatever the reason, when talking about what I "know" when in everyday life...I can easily say that I know I am here...and you are here...and the world is as it seems.

But in a discussion in the philosophy forum...anyone who said any of those things would be torn to pieces by people like Fresco, for instance.

When actually discussing the nature of REALITY...the notions conveyed by the word "know"...are very, very different from the notions conveyed in everyday conversations.

Sorry you are not able to understand that. I suspect it has less to do with you not being able to understand it...and more to do with whatever is motivating you right at the moment.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Mostly because I'm interested in understanding. Thus far, in this thread anyway, there hasn't much in the way of explaining, so I asked for some.

What I got was nasty remarks about me, undeserved, if you ask me, and the statement :

Quote:

When actually discussing the nature of REALITY...the notions conveyed by the word "know"...are very, very different from the notions conveyed in everyday conversations.

Great. Any chance you could further elucidate those notions and how they are very, very different?

Joe(Here's your chance to teach me something)Nation

1 Reply

@Joe Nation,

Joe Nation wrote:

Mostly because I'm interested in understanding. Thus far, in this thread anyway, there hasn't much in the way of explaining, so I asked for some.

What I got was nasty remarks about me, undeserved, if you ask me, and the statement :

Quote:
When actually discussing the nature of REALITY...the notions conveyed by the word "know"...are very, very different from the notions conveyed in everyday conversations.

Great. Any chance you could further elucidate those notions and how they are very, very different?

Joe(Here's your chance to teach me something)Nation

If I were to say to someone here in the forum "I love you"...I would be "treating" the word love differently from the way I treat it when I say it to Nancy."

Can you grok that?

Now...when I say I know something out in the everyday world...such as, "I know we are here in Central Park..."...

...I most assuredly am treating the word "know" differently than I would be treating it in a discussion on non-duality in this forum.

You do not come to these discussions often, Joe...and when you do, you are often on the incorrect sides of the issue...as you were when you suggest that I I "give up" in asserting that I do not belong to the group of humans who "believe there is a god" (I do not believe there is a god)...AND I ALSO do not belong to the group of humans who "believe there are no gods" (I do not believe there are no gods).

It is entirely possible to both "not believe there are gods"...and "not believe there are no gods"...but you decided I could not.

And now, you apparently are suggesting that I cannot treat a word like "know" differently in everyday conversation than I do when engaged in a philosophical discussion.

Frankly, Joe, if you don't get it from what has been written so far...you cannot learn it, because you apparently have a reason for wanting not to get it.

Scientists and philosophers both treat the word "know" with a great deal more exactitude when dealing with their specialties...than they do when having a chat at a local pub.

I am neither a scientist nor a philosopher...but when idly chatting with someone, I am not going to expect exactitude in my use of the word "know"...nor from my discussion partners when they use that word. We are having an informal conversation...and exactness is not important or germane.

BUT when in the forum...discussing either of those subject...

...I surely would expect more of myself...and my discussion partners.

I not only would expect us to treat the word differently from casual discussion...I would demand it. I would call careless use of the word to their attention.

And frankly, Joe, I am not interested in "teaching" you anything here...I am more interested in inviting you to get out of this area. It is NOT Lola's Cafe...and frankly, you are not built for the kind of crap that goes on here regularly.

If you want to stick...stick. Fine with me. But this is the kitchen.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

If you want links to where I aver that I treat the word "know" differently when in everyday conversation from when I am in a discussion in the philosophy forum...I will be glad to provide them.

Yada yada yada... IF you can first answer Joe's question about HOW DIFFERENT EXACTLY, then perhaps you could also tell us WHY you do so.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
If you want links to where I aver that I treat the word "know" differently when in everyday conversation from when I am in a discussion in the philosophy forum...I will be glad to provide them.

Yada yada yada... IF you can first answer Joe's question about HOW DIFFERENT EXACTLY, then perhaps you could also tell us WHY you do so.

I already have. You also seem to have a vested interest in simply NOT GETTING it.

No problem. Don't get it.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

You in actual fact haven't said anything. But whatever.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Thanks for the very long answer which I shall sum up thus : Philosophers use the word 'know' with more exactitude than the general populace. Okay.
I was hoping you'd share your definition of the word 'know' when discussing reality, how 'to be conscious of'' changes in those circumstances., for example.

Really sorry you still don't understand what I said about your I do not believe there are no gods statement. What I said at the end of the discussion (and my rope) was I think you are too good a writer not to see that your statement could be written as something other than the double negative that it is. That's all. It just needs a re-write. Not rethinking, re-wording...... Gah.

Anyway, love yah. Don't worry about my sensibilities 'in the kitchen' , if someone is making sense, I'll continue reading, if they are just flaming the page with personal attacks, I can scroll with the best of them.

Joe(I know with some exactitude that I am not as dumb as I look.)Nation

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

You in actual fact haven't said anything. But whatever.

Yes I have...but whatever!

1 Reply

@Joe Nation,

Joe Nation wrote:

Anyway, love yah.

Don't worry about my sensibilities 'in the kitchen' , if someone is making sense, I'll continue reading, if they are just flaming the page with personal attacks, I can scroll with the best of them.

In everyday, casual conversation...I could very well respond to these two sentences with:

I know you do...

...and I know you would.

In an exchange in the philosophy threads, if I were to do so someone would almost surely, and correctly, respond with: How can you possibly "know" either of those things?

So in casual, everyday conversation, I would respond to them the way I said...but here, I would treat the word "know" with more care and not do so.

Just another example of how I treat the word "know" differently in the two different environments, Jonathan.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Gack ! You've exposed my secret identity.

Btw: I read through Thomas' thread about his two tenets, facts and values and believing ..... full of fairly offered remarks and responses, the kind of thing I've always liked about this forum.

Off to trot around the Park......

Joe(Jonathan? who's that?Nation

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Good morning, Frank. Enjoy the game.
I stocked up on growlers yesterday.
You appear to have missed my comment about how the Bible was written to be understood by those with your same every day point of view.

1 Reply

@Joe Nation,

Joe Nation wrote:

Gack ! You've exposed my secret identity.

Btw: I read through Thomas' thread about his two tenets, facts and values and believing ..... full of fairly offered remarks and responses, the kind of thing I've always liked about this forum.

Off to trot around the Park......

Joe(Jonathan? who's that?Nation

I miss the park more than you can imagine. More than the Pan...which is now almost impossible to get onto. And with John dead, I cannot pull the strings that used to dangle.

Just saw a post by Bernie...first in a very long while. I'm hoping he is feeling great.

Enjoy the park...hope you went past the obelisk...or onto the Mall...down by the statue of Shakespeare.

Did I mention how much I miss the park?

0 Replies

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Good morning, Frank. Enjoy the game.
I stocked up on growlers yesterday.
You appear to have missed my comment about how the Bible was written to be understood by those with your same every day point of view.

I will enjoy the game...although with the Jints in such bad shape this year, it hasn't been a fun season.

Did not see that post about the Bible. Point me to it...I'll comment.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Top of this page

0 Replies

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Frank wrote:
Out in the "real world"...we are not thinking about whether or not it is the real world or a illusion...we are trying to get past the next semi without getting edged off the road. ..we are counting our dollars to be sure we have food next week.
But, of course you must 'know' the bible was written to be understood from just that point of view.

Yeah...I musta missed this, Neo.

Ummm...I suspect the Bible (the Old Testament) was written (compiled) as series of stories attempting to explain the world in the ancient Hebrews were living. They had their stories handed down from generation to generation...just as native Americans had theirs. And they had a rather fanciful mythology of the origins of humanity and the world that they saw.

I think all cultures back then wanted a god who was able to protect...and the kind of god they envisioned "to protect"...was not at all like the "peaceful, loving god "modern day Christians, for instance" want to imagine.

I also take exception to the notion that the people who wrote the Old Testament thought they were creating a monotheism...as so many now want to credit them for doing. I think the ancient Hebrews thought there were many gods...but that their god was special...and deserving (demanding) of their obedience.

All of this, of course, is just my best guess about the Bible and the stories in it.

0 Replies

What would A2K philosophers say while sitting on a bench?

Quick Links

My Account

able2know