Lola, In the larger scheme of things, believing or not believing in god(s) doesn't make any difference. It's the individual actions that counts. Show me any crime, and I'll show you a religious person that committed it. At least the atheist doesn't claim superior knowledge of good and bad based on their belief in a god. They just do it. c.i.
god's existence
TimberL. Yes, a Jeffersonian Democrat. I usually vote Democrat (or not at all), but after all, bullsh*t is a technical necessity of politics.
God
C.I. here, here (or is it hear, hear?)
JLN, For the listener, it doesn't make much difference! c.i.
God
C.I., right. Trouble is I was writing, not talking.
[from Th. Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, with a Syllabus]
Washington, Apr. 21, 1803
"I then promised you, that one day or other, I would give you my views of it. They are the result of a life of inquiry & reflection, and very different from that anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; & believing he never claimed any other.
"...And in confiding it to you, I know it will not be exposed to the malignant perversions of those who make every word from me a text for new misrepresentations & calumnies.
"I am moreover averse to the communication of my religious tenets to the public; because it would countenance the presumption of those who have endeavored to draw them before that tribunal, and to seduce public opinion to erect itself into that inquisition over the rights of conscience, which the laws have so justly proscribed. It behoves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others; or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own. It behoves him, too, in his own case, to give no example of concession, betraying the common right of independent opinion, by answering questions of faith, which the laws have left between God & himself."
Maybe he wasn't a Deist.
JLN, According to Steve, our London resource/expert, it's "hear, hear." When I sat in the gallery of Parliament many years ago, I thought I heard "yeah, yeah..." I was corrected! c.i.
Piffka
Boy, that's another lovely quotation from Jefferson. If I get voted in as King, every time Jerry Falwell or Pat Roberson uses Jefferson's name, I'll have my personal staff round them up and staple this quotation to their foreheads.
c.i., I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not........and whether you're saying that all crimes are committed by religious fanatics. Crimes are commited by those who believe they have some type of superior knowledge over others. These are the conscious justifications for violence and destructive behavior......but they are never the true cause. They are simply the excuses people use to gratify certain wishes and avoid the guilt associated with injury to others. Stalin, for instance did not believe in God, he simply believed he was God, which is often one in the same thing. I do believe we are in agreement here.
Lola, I'm a very weak man for garters and exposed legs: How can I not agree with you? c.i.
You are very sweet, c.i................... but what about my mind? Can I not have legs and a mind as well? No, on second thought, don't answer that.........I suppose my avatar is somewhat distracting........sorry. But I don't mean to be taking unfair advantage. Tell me now, what do you think of my ideas?
Truely, Lola, a gorgeous pair of ideas. :wink:
Lola, You haven't heard any challenges from me, because I agree with your ideas. Maybe not 100 percent all the time, but close enough that any difference is minor. I'm rather flattered that you care what I think. I'm just an average joe with average brain and average comments. Some of these guys on A2K are real smart and articulate. Me? I struggle with one thousand dollar words. c.i.
Now, blatham, you understand my conservative outlook impels me to support the first amendment as strongly as anyone, but when Falwell and Roberson start quoting Jefferson, it's their lips that need stapling, not the quotation.
Thank you Roger, but remember, it is only an avatar.........not a photo of my real legs. Although, I wish...........and c.i. your ideas seem very sound to me.
roger
You are quite right again, of course. It is just that whenever I think of stapling people (and I do surprisingly often) Bob Dylan's line comes unbidden: "with twenty pounds of headlines, stapled to his chest".
No amount of stapling would ever cure the likes of Robertson and Falwell--they've demonstrated ad naseum that they have no regard for any search for truth. Their only object is demagoguery (sp?), and they wouldn't care whose ideas or memory they prostitute in the process.
Lola
As you and I both know, though your actual legs may not be an exact match for those portrayed, my legs would easily set the hearts of many interior designers quite aflutter.
Setanta ups the stakes from staples to pneumatic drywall screws.
I was thinkin, Roger, it was the concepts of hell and damn that Navajos don't recognize... they have plenty of words for God.
