Olivier5
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2013 05:23 pm
@Setanta,
Yes it does. Look at the stats again: 29% from Latin (but generally not in common usage); 29% from French, 26% from German... If you leave aside Latin words, French accounts for about half.

Why does that come as a surprise to you?
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2013 05:24 pm
@izzythepush,
It's both ways, but first French --> English then English --> French. There is no shame in borrowing words, you know?
Olivier5
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2013 05:27 pm
@Setanta,
Not sure I can excuse such poor French on your part, Set... Smile

Je vais faire du SKI (a Nordic word, not of English origin) et j'espere trouver une place de parking.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2013 05:34 pm
@Olivier5,
Not first French. 'Weekend' originates in the North of England, the part least influenced by France.

I don't think anyone here is particularly ashamed of the French influence, most are unaware of it. However, you're being completely disingenuous by suggesting that French is the root of English. When studying English, we don't start with the Norman Conquest, we start with Beowulf, written in Anglo Saxon. Anglo Saxon is the template, not French. All other languages are added on, Norse, Latin, French and the rest.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2013 05:46 pm
@Olivier5,
I routinely excuse your poor English, if i can understand what you meant to say, you snotty son of a bitch. You babble about half of our common nouns being of French origin, but that means nothing. Asteroid is a common noun, eosinophils is a common noun, telepathy is a common noun--but that doesn't mean that they are commonly used in conversation in English.

Yes, it appears that you just like to argue.
Olivier5
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2013 06:44 pm
@izzythepush,
You misunderstood me. My arrows represented word flows, not filiation. I agree that whatever the amount of foreign words imported throughout history, English remains GRAMMATICALLY and at ROOT, in its most basic and simple vocabulary, a language of the Dutch & German family.

My arrows meant that English borrowed from French early on, starting in the 12 century and on for quite some time, BEFORE the flow of words started to reverse, with French borrowing more heavily from English than vice-versa around the end of the 19th century until now.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2013 07:34 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
My arrows meant that English borrowed from French early on, starting in the 12 century and on for quite some time, BEFORE the flow of words started to reverse, with French borrowing more heavily from English than vice-versa around the end of the 19th century until now.

Just out of curiosity I looked up the origin of most of the words in that sentence of yours in the online Miriam Webster dictionary. Only one had ties to Anglo-French origins. Most came from middle or old English with ties to old high German. A couple of Norse origins, old Irish, and a Gothic one. Latin had ties to 10 of the words: arrow, that, in, century, for, flow, word, reverse (which is the only word that references French as well), end, now.

I ignored vice-versa which is pretty clearly of Latin origin.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2013 07:41 pm
@Setanta,
Lighten up Set, will you?

Allow me to flag the words of French origin in your post:

Quote:
[Re: Olivier5 (Post 5519586)
I routinely excuse your poor English, if i can understand what you meant to say, you snotty son of a bitch. You babble about half of our common nouns being of French origin, but that means nothing. Asteroid is a common noun , eosinophils is a common noun , telepathy is a common noun --but that doesn't mean that they are commonly used in conversation in English.

Yes, it appears that you just like to argue.


I never spoke of COMMON NOUNS, but of words, including adjectives or verbs, IN COMMON USAGE.
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2013 07:43 pm
ttp://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_of_French_origin_(0-9)_and_(A-C)

A
abandon
abandonment
abase (Old Fr. abaissier)
abash (Old Fr. esbaïr)
abate (Old Fr. abatre, compare modern Fr. abattre)
abatement (Old Fr. abatement, compare modern Fr. abattement)
abatis
abattoir
abbatial
abbe
abbess
abbey (Anglo Fr. abbeie, from Old Fr. abaïe, compare modern Fr. abbaye)
abbreviation, (Fr.abréviation)
abdication
abet (Old Fr. abeter)
abeyance (Anglo Fr. abeiance, from Old Fr. abeance)
abhor (Fr. abhorrer)
ability (Old Fr. ableté, compare modern Fr. habileté with restoration of initial h of Latin habilitas)
abject
abjection
abjuration
abjure (Fr. abjurer)
ablation (Fr. ablation)
ablative
able, from Old French, compare modern Fr. habile or capable
ablution
abnormal compare anormal
aboard (Middle Fr. à bord)
abolish, compare abolir
abolition
abominable
abomination
abound
abrasion
abrasive, Fr. abrasif, abrasive(fem.)
abridge, Fr. abréger
abrogation
abrupt
absence
absent
absinthe
absolute, from Middle French, compare modern Fr. absolu
absolution
absorb (Fr. absorber)
abstain (Old Fr. abstenir)
abstention
abstinence
abstinent
absurd
absurdity (Fr. absurdité)
abundance (Old Fr. abundance, modern Fr. abondance)
abundant
abuse (Fr. abuser)
abusive (Fr. abusif, abusive(fem.) )
abut (Old Fr. abouter)
abysmal (Old Fr. abisme)
academy, compare académie, from anc. Greek akademeia
Acadia (Fr. Acadie)
acceleration (Fr. accélération)
accent (Fr. accent)
accept (Fr accepter)
acceptable
acceptance
access (Fr. accès)
accessible
accession
accident
acclamation
acclimate (Fr. acclimater)
accolade
accommodation
accompaniment (Fr. accompagnement)
accompany (Old Fr. acompaignier, modern Fr. accompagner)
accomplice (Old Fr. complice)
...

Should I go on?
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2013 07:49 pm
@Olivier5,
The link got broken.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_of_French_origin
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 13 Dec, 2013 07:52 pm
@Olivier5,
Forgot these:

Quote:
Yes, it appears that you just like to argue.
0 Replies
 
Calamity Dal
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2013 11:02 am
My favorite christian custom is erecting a giant phallus in my living room every year. I almost feel guilty for putting an angel on top Smile My wife looks hot handling the bawbels as she applies them tho.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2013 11:08 am
@Olivier5,
You can't simply eliminate all Latin words as simply being used in science as you as you attempt to do to try to make French the origin of half of English words.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:English_words_by_Latin_antecedents
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2013 11:24 am
@parados,
Exactly, a lot of the Latin was there before 1066. Lots of English words share a Latin root with French, they don't come from French.

Quote:
The Germanic tribes who would later give rise to the English language (the Angles, Saxon and Jutes) traded and fought with the Latin speaking Roman Empire. Many words (some originally from Greek) for common objects therefore entered the vocabulary of these Germanic people via Latin even before the tribes reached Britain (what is known as the Continental or Zero Period): anchor, butter, camp, cheese, chest, cook, copper, devil, dish, fork, gem, inch, kitchen, mile, mill, mint (coin), noon, pillow, pound (unit of weight), punt (boat), sack, street, wall, wine. Cognates of virtually all of these English words exist in the other Germanic languages.

Christian missionaries coming to Britain in the 6th century and 7th century brought with them Latin religious terms which entered the English language: abbot, altar, apostle, candle, clerk, mass, minister, monk, nun, pope, priest, school, shrive. Some of these words are ultimately of Greek origin, as much of the technical language of Christianity developed from the Greek of the New Testament and the works of those Fathers of the Church who wrote in Greek.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_influence_in_English

I highlighted Abbot because Ollie was trying to claim credit for Abbe and Abbey which is clearly untrue.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2013 11:30 am
He just likes to argue, and can't admit that he might not be right. Even if his claims about English vocabulary were true (and i ain't buyin' it), that doesn't authorize a claim of some overwhelming French cultural influence.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2013 12:29 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
I highlighted Abbot because Ollie was trying to claim credit for Abbe and Abbey which is clearly untrue.

We don't need to personalize this. It's not about you and me. I am not claiming credit for Abbey, just presenting established etymologies. Etymology and linguistics are sciences, not pissing contests.

Abbot is from Latin, but Abbey and Abbess are from French:

http://etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=Abbot&searchmode=none

Quote:
The basic sources of this work are Weekley's "An Etymological Dictionary of Modern English," Klein's "A Comprehensive Etymological Dictionary of the English Language," "Oxford English Dictionary" (second edition), "Barnhart Dictionary of Etymology," Holthausen's "Etymologisches Wörterbuch der Englischen Sprache," and Kipfer and Chapman's "Dictionary of American Slang." A full list of print sources used in this compilation can be found here.


Quote:
abbot (n.)
Old English abbod "abbot," from Latin abbatem (nominative abbas), from Greek abbas, from Aramaic abba, title of honor, literally "the father, my father," emphatic state of abh "father." The Latin fem. abbatissa is root of abbess.

abbey (n.)
mid-13c., "convent headed by an abbot or abbess," from Anglo-French abbeie, Old French abaïe, from Late Latin abbatia, from abbas (genitive abbatis); see abbot.

abbe (n.)
1520s, title given in France to "every one who wears an ecclesiastical dress," especially one having no assigned ecclesiastical duty, from French abbé, from Late Latin abbatem, accusative of abbas (see abbot).

abbess (n.)
c.1300, abbese, from Old French abbesse, from Late Latin abbatissa, fem. of abbas (see abbot). Replaced earlier abbotess.

izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2013 12:34 pm
@Olivier5,
So what do you think they called the place where the Abbot lived before 1066?
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2013 12:35 pm
Yeah, but getting back to the OP, how about the word 'yulekakka'? Sorry if I spelled incorrectly, I mostly just enjoy with coffee
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2013 12:37 pm
@parados,
Since an overwhelming majority of French words have Latin antecedents, the thousands of French words borrowed by English since the 12th century have overwhelmingly Latin antecedents... Example:

In your link, the Latin verb Bibo/Bibere is given as the antecedent of Beverage, but the REAL DIRECT antecedent of it is old French Bevrage (now Breuvage), which ITSELF comes from Latin Bibere. Clear? You are attributing to Latin words that actually came from French.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Dec, 2013 12:39 pm
@izzythepush,
A convent.
 

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