Intelligent Design vs. Casino Universe

@JimmyJ,

JimmyJ wrote:

Yeah.

I'm about 2 semesters away from a bachelors in evolutionary Biology and I'm looking to go into medical research afterwards (wallet is bracing for impact lol).

Cannot imagine what it is like financing a college education these days. When I got my undergrad degree...I was paying $75 per credit...and the VA was paying that!

How any parent affords a decent university for their off-spring is beyond comprehension.

The cost for a year at Princeton, for instance, (Nancy and I dine in Princeton often) is about $59,000 PER YEAR!

Ouch!

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@farmerman,

Quote:

spendi feels that logic and accuracy are overblown requisites of science

Science fm is an activity of human beings and is just as subject to human characteristics as every other activity. The idea that science can design the world without imposing upon it the characteristics of the designers is a faith and a utopian one at that.

As you yourself prove by not taking issue with the idea that an eye is exactly like a camera lens in order to keep your claque on board and safely huddled beneath your protective wing.

The general madness and irrationality of mankind are not failings. They are characteristics necessary for mankind. It might not be scientific to use the terms madness and irrational at all. Such words can be used as weapons and have been very many times on these so-called science threads and by so-called defenders of science. And elsewhere. Subjectivity running loose and unhindered. The opposite of science.

Science is used in the pursuit of power. Knowledge and accuracy and truth are neither here nor there. Just badges to pin on your chest. Science will always be crooked, shifty and cunning because men are crooked and shifty and cunning. And there is nothing we can do about it. Knowing that helps a little in getting your election address into its proper perspective.

How many sites have you visited in order to confirm the age of the earth? At the taxpayers expense. How many more will there be? Surely once or twice is sufficient? But not of joyrides eh? Can't get enough of them.

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@JimmyJ,

Quote:

I'm about 2 semesters away from a bachelors in evolutionary Biology and I'm looking to go into medical research afterwards (wallet is bracing for impact lol).

See it as an investment James. When you're done you'll get a piece of paper which will set you up for life if you conform to the rules. You won't be allowed to fail because failures detract from the excellence of the institution you are in which is in competition with other similar institutions.

I hope Prof. Aidley's The Physiology of Excitable Cells is on your reading list. And Reich's The Function of the Orgasm.

Why does nobody back a horse that has done three circuits of the parade ring with a hard on? Trial and error taught people the proper way of not making such mistakes.

But good luck with it all the same and try to remember these are the best years of your life. It's all downhill after 21. Science has proved that. Denials notwithstanding.

With a good degree, and the appropriate position resulting, you will be hunted down like a dog. Kenneled, chained and made to do tricks.

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@parados,

Quote:

Repeating your straw man doesn't mean I said what you want to argue against.

I know what you said. I read it a few times to be sure my eyes were not deceiving me.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Cannot imagine what it is like financing a college education these days. When I got my undergrad degree...I was paying $75 per credit...and the VA was paying that!

Undergrad is nothing really. I get so much federal aid that I end up not paying for anything. If I did have to pay, though, in state would be about 10 grand a year whereas out of state jumps up to 25-30.

It's the post-grad that really kills people. I calculate that if I go to the medical school I WANT to go to I will end up being ~320,000$ in debt by the time I get out.

Quote:

The cost for a year at Princeton, for instance, (Nancy and I dine in Princeton often) is about $59,000 PER YEAR!

Yeah, but that IS Princeton.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

When I got my undergrad degree.

So now Apisa wants to join the preening fest.

As if anybody is really saying "Ouch" when they can hardly wait to get on the ladder and joyously sign on for it. They fight like rats in a sack to get into Oxbridge and that's where the fees are highest.

"Ouch!" indeed. Apisa must think university students are suffering in order to help the country have more sense. Heroes. He must think we are all stupid. The substance of his post was "When I got my undergrad degree."

Extended child dependency does keep large numbers out of the unemployment figures. And allows old out-of date fogies to cling on to their positions and perquisites. So that's a plus at least.

1 Reply

@spendius,

It was always a bit of a laugh in the pub to see how long a lady with a kid at university could contribute to the conversation without mentioning it.

2 minutes was the max. What the conversation was about was no hindrance.

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@JimmyJ,

two ways.
Grad school for a PhD in some arcane area of what would be your research. If your grades and GRE's are in the .95%ile) you should get a fellowship or TA or reaserach assistantship at a good school
THEN have your acceptance to med school with a PhD.

or

Have you checked into the military's requirements for field surgery ? They still send people to med school?

or

Go the route of becoming an EMS with a med school target in your future.

Obviously these places will carry a sign up and minimum employment requirements.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Reading books is a way to begin.

No, it is not (... the way to begin). The way to begin is to start distinguishing which books (or information) is junk, and which are not entirely junk. That is the way to begin.

farmerman wrote:

A 38 year career in geology and geochemistry has allowed me to see and examine many of the key sites

How did it happen that with such panoramic view of yours ... you missed the point. The Chinese went to the Moon, they will make there a plant for the production of Helium 3 ... and not far is the time when you will be compelled to buy your energy (for breathing) from them ... but this is just my opinion.

further wrote:

Now, I believe that, rolling up all your attempted arguments, you believe that scientists are STUPID

Why don't you simply ask me what I believe: I cannot say whether or not the scientists are stupid (most of them, most probably are) ... but the thing that is for sure is that ... they are arrogant without limits (in most of the cases).
BTW you are not 'the scientists'. Why don't you speak on behalf of yourself ... only.

1 Reply

@Herald,

Quote:

The way to begin is to start distinguishing which books (or information) is junk,

so you can tell which of these books are junk without even cracking their covers??
Does someone else tell you not to read ?
I cant help you with your ignorance then, if you don't try to visit the scence literature and dip in and read. Now I can understand how you got to sound as you do. You are what we call "fact-free".

Quote:

The Chinese went to the Moon, they will make there a plant for the production of Helium 3 ... and not far is the time when you will be compelled to buy your energy (for breathing) from them ... but this is just my opinion.

I suppose you had a point here, Im not going to worry too much that Ive missed it because , if its like your other previous points, its of little relevance to the topic. Its just another diversion .

Ive asked you what you believe several times and you merely ignore the requests. I like it when I gave you information as to how we search in the fossil record for "intermeidates and links" by visiting rocks of the right type and right age (and this demonstrates Poppers concept of "falsification"). You attempted to cast an insult at me for trying to instruct you. NOW, you've come back and are telling me that, "Before you read a book, you must first determine if its of the "right type".
Do you even recall what you say from post to post?
I believe weve got your number erald. Youre a "Schill" for your worldview. The only problem is that your not able to carry on a strong argument for your case .
Why not try my suggestion and look at "convergent evolution"> It will require you to "buy" into some sort of a theistic evolution or "Consistently directed Intelligent design", but I don't see how you can actually believe in standard Creationism what with all the evidence to the contrary that lies out there in the field among the sedimentary rocks on the earth

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

I cant help you with your ignorance then, if you don't try to visit the scence literature and dip in and read.

Lord kept me from wasting my life in that way.

further wrote:

I suppose you had a point here, Im not going to worry too much that Ive missed it. ...

The point is that you are missing the point ... in most of the cases, and pay too much attention to insignificant details and pseudo-scientific presentations.
The point is that the resources on the Earth are constrained and that we are DOA without finding an 'ID' to manage them better. The point is that the world is driving on chaos owing to the people that are not worrying aboud missing the point. The point is that we have had a mad luck that you are a paleo-, and not a bio- for example. The point is that there is no point of reading about 'the rocks of the right type' when one has no idea how the DNA works ... and what he is actually looking for.
The more you read the more you start looking exactly like the books you are reading - 'speaking' a lot without telling too much ... in the ideal case not telling anything essential.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

(and this demonstrates Poppers concept of "falsification").

How could evolution be falsified fm? Assuming God doesn't send us a "potter's wheel" demonstration video.

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@Herald,

I suppose that you are often told that you make no sense. Imay not be a geneticist but Ive got enough relevant education to whup your ass dude. The theory of evolution has been crafted our of workings of many disciplines . I don't know of anyone who is adept at all the relevant areas of study.
Nevertheless, you seem to be all over the table with personal accusation and reproof borne out of anger rather than a quest for knowledge. Also, you've yet to support any of your idesa about ID (which was the original point in your chosen topic).
If Im acting in a "pseudoscientific" way, please straighten me out (if you are able to construct a cohesive thought). So far you've been talking more like youre hammered from a festive Holiday celebration .

Your 'analysis" abut ID is totally based upon a limted religious view, why not just admit it and then you won't have to "mess" with trying to sound like you have any cogent ideas about Science.

IN SUMMARY
So far the US Supreme Court and the US third district court agrees with me, in that you SHALL NOT try to teach this view on ID or Creationism in public school science classes because it isn't science at all, its a religious belief system based on a limited Biblical view of Creation espoused by specific Fundamentalist Christian cults.

When you get to the bottom of most of your and your bretheren's beliefs, we usually see that they all make no attempts to try to analyze what the various scientific disciplines are saying. IGNORANCE IS BLISS in your cases.
You have the very right to believe same, just don't try to present it as fact in a science class (you will be stopped by law) and if you wish to debate herein, at least present some factual bases.

After you said;

Quote:

Lord kept me from wasting my life in that way

You shut down any hope for any following debate, you've engaged a "copout clause" by defaulting to your magic guy in the sky. I have nothing supernatural that science digs up as a counter to your statement of belief. Science is limited to a methodology that doesn't include woo woo and magic.

Were obviously talking past each other . Id suggest that you remand your original thread title and rename it something like "Im AN IDER SO DONT TRY TO TALK SCIENCE TO ME-"

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@Herald,

Quote:

The more you read the more you start looking exactly like the books you are reading - 'speaking' a lot without telling too much ... in the ideal case not telling anything essential.

So we should all be like you? Spouting stuff about which we have read nothing and know nothing? I'll bet that would make the world a better place alright.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Ive got enough relevant education

How did you come to know that? You cannot self-assess FM. It is outside independent assessors that may assess you ... if they can endure your language.

further wrote:

The theory of evolution has been crafted our of workings of many disciplines.

Why don't you name them: paleology, history of antiquities ... and the branch of biology dealing with extinct species.

further wrote:

Your 'analysis" abut ID is totally based upon a limted religious view, why not just admit it and then you won't have to "mess" with trying to sound like you have any cogent ideas about Science.

... and your 'analysis" abut evolution is totally based upon a limted pseudo-scientific understanding of the world, why not just admit it and then you won't have to "mess" with trying to sound like you have any cogent ideas about the world we are living.

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@Herald,

Quote:

... and your 'analysis" abut evolution is totally based upon a limted pseudo-scientific understanding of the world, why not just admit it and then you won't have to "mess" with trying to sound like you have any cogent ideas about the world we are living.

Wait wait, you're a creationist???

LOL

1 Reply

@Herald,

Quote:

Why don't you name them:

Im kind of tired trying to instruct you. I am beginning to believe that you are ineducable.

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@JimmyJ,

JimmyJ wrote:

Wait wait, you're a creationist???

Not exactly, sooner agnostic for the time being ... but not because FM is 'kind of tired trying to instruct' me, but rather because there are reasonable suspicions for missing key information ... to define properly the problem in the first place.
The only one that can define the problem beyond-any-doubt is FM ... if there is some book on the subject.

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@Herald,

I think I know what "book" you get your "knowledge" from.

1 Reply

@Herald,

What a maroon . . . if you're an agnostic, you cannot possibly support the possibility of intelligent design. Intelligent design implies a designer--and agnostic would not know if there were a designer.

It's not just that you have zero scientific knowledge, it's not just that your English sucks--you have absolutely not logical or rhetorical skills. You've been dishonest in this thread from start to finish.

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Intelligent Design vs. Casino Universe

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