Intelligent Design vs. Casino Universe

Look lads--your efforts to talk up your sweetness has no effect on me. I'm pretty sure you are all nice guys. There's no need to get all defensive and all. I'm sure your Christian neighbours, 90% I gather, consider you fine upstanding members of the community.

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@spendius,

Says the defensive one.

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@spendius,

Quote:

Darwin rejected "ascending".

he liberally used "higher animals" as a term of art. His term of "Descent with modification" means inheritance of traits through time, and The reason he titled his work on humans "The Descent of Man" was because he was using that term with respect to man's ancestry and heredity.

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@farmerman,

There's nothing, fm, that you can teach me about evolution. Nothing.

Nor nothing of significance about Darwin either. He used "selection" too and that's anthropomorphic.

And just look at the company that approves of you.

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@spendius,

I probably could but you must be first willing to learn. I really care not about your floppery into Christian apologiea as a "parlor debate" you don't believe most of what you say anyway.

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@farmerman,

You couldn't. Not a chance.

I don't believe anything I say.

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@spendius,

you really do take up much needed space

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@farmerman,

That's the general idea isn't it?

Are you politely ordering me out of the room?

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

Spendi has to rely on unfounded allegations of atheist immorality in an effort to draw attention away from the fact that his arguments against science have no traction.

RE: 'the allegations'
Without immorality atheism has no integrity ... and will fall apart like a house of cards.

RE: 'arguments against science'
Which science you are talking about? If you talk about the 'rocks of the right type' it establishes only facts without any causality, where the key word is 'without'.

What scientific (and pseudiscientific) evidences can you present to prove that ID does not exist, is not plausible ... and our personal intelligence is a delusion ... driven by the casino processes of the big bang.

Speaking about the big bang, in the capacity of being the greatest trump of the atheists against theism and ID, why don't you present us some evidences about it plausibility.
1. What evidences do you have that the universe has been developed (by creation out of nothing) exclusively by the big bang? That there are no other processing taking part in this evolution though creation or creation based on evolution ... or whatever?
2. What evidences do you have that life is not based on ID and ID should be excluded from the process of creation, or evolution (whatever the case might be)?
3. What evidences do you have that life is not created BOTH by creation and evolution?
4. What evidences do you have that the big bang is not operating on intelligence?
5. What evidences do yo have that evolution does not rely on intelligence ... etc.

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@Herald,

That's pretty damned hilarious coming from soneone who has not produced an iota of evidence for his claims. No one has to disprove ID--those who tout it have to prove it, and you've provided zero proof.

Now this:

Quote:

Without immorality atheism has no integrity ... and will fall apart like a house of cards.

. . . has got to be one of the most idiotic claims you've ever made. "Atheism" is a construct of religionists in the first place. People who don't believe in god simply don't believe in god--there is no reason at all to assume that they adhere to an ideology. Religionists are certainly in no position to comment on the integrity of anyone else, especially not those who can only be defined by what they don't believe.

You're an idiot.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

To FM: Are you politely ordering me out of the room?

FM has no powers to expel you from this blog - he is not the titulary of the blog. If he is bluffing you should have in mind that he is top atheist, the integrity of athism is based on immorality and that immorality does not exclude bluffing.

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@Herald,

Why is that that you are such a liar?

That's highly immoral.

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@Herald,

I see that your densification training is proceeding along rapidly. One morning you shall awaken with the mass/volume of iridium or osmium. CONGRATULATIONS.

Quote:

What scientific (and pseudiscientific) evidences can you present to prove that ID does not exist, is not plausible ... and our personal intelligence is a delusion ... driven by the casino processes of the big bang. [/ quote]

That the whole point. There is NO credible evidence out there that can show you that ID is possible. Its all based upon a stairway of "What ifs".
Science is pretty firmly based upon being evidence based in this arena.
Even "rocks of the right type and time" is a powerful means to TEST the concept (Im sorry that youre a bit to obtuse to appreciate what the sciences tell you)

Your "morality" argument I merely a side issue of which you also have no evidence to support yourself.

Herald , youre mostly funny, when do you think you are going to get to something substantive ?.

I see that, in your final "assertions/questions" you've broken the boundaries and are now at least considering evolution.
As far as the Big Bang there is plenty of cosmological evidence that supports its occurrence. Can ID say that/

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@Setanta,

Quote:

People who don't believe in god simply don't believe in god--there is no reason at all to assume that they adhere to an ideology.

If they preach their atheism there is every reason to assume it is in the service of an ideology. Plenty of people don't believe in God, in the sense that word is being used here, and who keep it to themselves. Most of them are prepared to go through the motions of believing in God on certain occasions. Roman emperors often sacrificed to gods they didn't believe in or even have any knowledge of. The main principle of Pagan religions was to not show disrespect for the gods of others.

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@Herald,

fm, if I read him correctly, has been quietly sliding into agnosticism.

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There the human race was, quietly minding its own business for thousands of years, when suddenly various aliens and UFO's begin appearing out of nowhere to tell humans how to behave better, culminating in the appearance of one guy who said straight out "Hi, I'm God's son, now get your act together once and for all!", and the Great Debate about him has been raging ever since.. Smile

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@farmerman,

Perhaps, besides rocks of the right type, a not entirely bad idea is to take a look at some ice of the right type. What are you going to say about the ice core samples taken from Fort Century, for example. There are periods there in the history of the development of the species where rapid cold snaps and rapid warming are observed and the dominating population of cold-resistant beetles is replaced by dominating population of hot resistant beetles ... and no evolutionary transformation of cold resistant beetles into hot resistant trans-mutations of cold resistant beetles is observed, which suggests some serious gaps & omissions in the construction of your evolutionary biases.

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@Herald,

You again make the false assumption that evolution requires direct descent. Both types of beetles existed but the change in habitat made one type flourish and then when the habitat changed again the other type flourished. It really has nothing to do with evolution until you show that one is a direct descendent of the other.

You do show how evolution works however. The change in habitat makes certain traits more desirable and those with that trait can out compete those without the trait.

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@Herald,

he he. The old "ice cores are proof of the flood" has been debunked as just the most simplistic of "evience".
The Century cores and all the others in the same references used by Creationst "Scientists" were collected by melt core techniques back in the 1950's and arly 1960's, the newer cores collect different kinds of isotopic data including C14 /C13/C12 v N13 s well as O16/O18 . The bugs tht show up in cores are examples of the species variablility , not evolution as Parados said.
We see the same thing in Pleistocene/Holocene cave systems in the Appalachians where animals fell to their deaths through sinkholes. We see many cyclic deposits of species like "Spotted skunks" as far north as western Massachusetts and as far south as Florida. The variability between spotted skunks and striped skunks is determined by "heat loving/ and cold loving species". When its cold, the cave deposits s show striped skunks, when its an interglacial priod, the spotted skunks predominate.
Species expand in a range when the environment is to their liking, simple as that. They don't evolve and revolve from the same stock. As parados said, you've really disclosed one of the working mechanisms of evolution though, "ADAPTTION THROUGH TIME "

Ive read all that Creationist junk about Ice cores being evidence of a "Flood" and found it really entertaining

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

The old "ice cores ... " has been debunked ...The Century cores and all the others in the same references used by Creationst "Scientists" ...

FM, there is no way for you to have found the ice cores of Century Fort, to have gathered the required data, to have processed the data, interpreted the acquired information ... analyzed it in details, verified and validated it ... withing 40 min (the time from my post to your post) ... even with all the resources of the web.
... and BTW Century Fort is called so not because the ice core samples taken from it are calibrated by centuries, but because it has been located 100 miles from the shore.

farmerman wrote:

The bugs tht show up in cores are examples of the species variablility , not evolution as Parados said.

I also said that. There is no way for one species of beetles (cold resistant) to be transformed ... by evolution into another species of beetles (hot resistant) - without any DNA correlation?! - and after some period of time, when the whether collapses back again the hot resistant species to evolve by regression into the old cold resistant species ... unless you have some special theory of evolution driving along closed cycles ... which will be no wonder having in mind the speed at which you read and interpreted the data of the ice cores of Fort Century.

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Intelligent Design vs. Casino Universe

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