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Intelligent Design vs. Casino Universe

 
 
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 10:38 am
@Quehoniaomath,
Quehoniaomath wrote:
But what then about evidence for (macro) evolution? There is just NONE.
     You don't understand something - some people may claim Infinite Temperature appearing out of Nowhere and out of Nothing and Existing Outside Time without any Material Carrier WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE, but they cannot stop asking for evidence for a hypothesis that they use as a straw-man and red herring to avoid inconvenient questions.
     The evidence of my hypothesis might have been the evidence of the Big Bang theory (if it has ever had anything of the kind, for as far as I can see the apologists of the Big Bang have never had such problem).
     The objective assumptions for the origin of the Universe are one and the same and do not depend on the subsequent theory due to the integrity of the physical Universe. The Universe could have had only one case of assumptions - not all the three at once, as FBM is trying to convince us with his straw man of the aliens.
Krumple
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 02:13 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Quehoniaomath wrote:

But what then about evidence for (macro) evolution? There is just NONE.


Everything currently living IS evidence for macro evolution. Especially the more complex the species is, meaning further down the branch. Like US for example. We contain DNA of our previous common ancestors. Why would we contain these genes if there was not a process by which we are related genetically? It doesn't just stop at a common ancestor but goes even further back.

Any attempts to claim there is no evidence for macro evolution simply have not done a single search for it. There are dozens of books, articles and sites devoted to debunking this nonsense that there is no evidence. Why not actually do some reading before you attempt to keep alive a nonsensical argument?
Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 02:35 pm
@Krumple,
All the things you mentioning are ONLY evidence if one already believe in the religion of evolution.

It really is all in your imagination. Why can't you see that?

yep, I researched a lot and seemingly deeper than you have,


The Emperor has NO clothes.
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 02:45 pm
don't believe me about imagination and all?


Quote:
The absence of fossil evidence for intermediary stages between major transitions in organic design, indeed our inability, even in our imagination, to construct functional intermediates in many cases, has been a persistent and nagging problem for gradualistic accounts of evolution."
Stephen Jay Gould (Professor of Geology and Paleontology, Harvard University), "Is a new and general theory of evolution emerging?" Paleobiology, vol. 6(1), January 1980, p. 127
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 02:45 pm
Quote:
"Contrary to what most scientists write, the fossil record does not support the Darwinian theory of evolution because it is this theory (there are several) which we use to interpret the fossil record. By doing so we are guilty of circular reasoning if we then say the fossil record supports this theory."

Ronald R. West, PhD (paleoecology and geology) (Assistant Professor of Paleobiology at Kansas State University), "Paleoecology and uniformitarianism". Compass, vol. 45, May 1968, p. 216
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 02:47 pm
Quote:
"Echoing the criticism made of his father's habilis skulls, he added that Lucy's skull was so incomplete that most of it was 'imagination made of plaster of Paris', thus making it impossible to draw any firm conclusion about what species she belonged to."

Referring to comments made by Richard Leakey (Director of National Museums of Kenya) in The Weekend Australian, 7-8 May 1983, Magazine, p. 3
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 02:48 pm
Quote:
The entire hominid collection known today would barely cover a billiard table, ... the collection is so tantalizingly incomplete, and the specimens themselves often so fragmented and inconclusive, that more can be said about what is missing than about what is present. ...but ever since Darwin's work inspired the notion that fossils linking modern man and extinct ancestor would provide the most convincing proof of human evolution, preconceptions have led evidence by the nose in the study of fossil man."

John Reader (photo-journalist and author of "Missing Links"), "Whatever happened to Zinjanthropus?" New Scientist, 26 March 1981, p. 802
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 02:58 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Quehoniaomath wrote:

All the things you mentioning are ONLY evidence if one already believe in the religion of evolution.


the development of DNA profiling. This field of science wouldn't exist if it were not for the theory of evolution. No one would have bothered to look for it.

You see the theory leads to consequences and one of these consequences brings up another hypothesis. That hypothesis was, if there is a way for information to be passed from parent to offspring there must be a mechanism for it to work.

DNA profiling was the result of attempts to discover the mechanism by which information passes from parent to offspring.

The fact the very fact that DNA exists, IS the mechanism by which validates the theory of evolution alone. Without DNA, without this mechanism then it could have easily dismissed the theory outright. We have a process by which genetic information is propagated. Why would this process exist if evolution was not true?

Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 03:39 pm
Quote:
"The problem with a lot of anthropologists is that they want so much to find a hominid that any scrap of bone becomes a hominid bone.'"

Dr. Tim White (anthropologist, University of California, Berkeley). As quoted by Ian Anderson "Hominoid collarbone exposed as dolphin's rib", in New Scientist, 28 April 1983, p. 199
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 03:40 pm
@Krumple,
DNA bla bla bla is NOT macro evolution mate!
Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 03:40 pm
Quote:
"We add that it would be all too easy to object that mutations have no evolutionary effect because they are eliminated by natural selection. Lethal mutations (the worst kind) are effectively eliminated, but others persist as alleles. ...Mutants are present within every population, from bacteria to man. There can be no doubt about it. But for the evolutionist, the essential lies elsewhere: in the fact that mutations do not coincide with evolution."

Pierre-Paul Grassé (University of Paris and past-President, French Academie des Sciences) in Evolution of Living Organisms, Academic Press, New York, 1977, p. 88
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 03:41 pm
Quote:
"Why do geologists and archeologists still spend their scarce money on costly radiocarbon determinations? They do so because occasional dates appear to be useful. While the method cannot be counted on to give good, unequivocal results, the number do impress people, and save them the trouble of thinking excessively. Expressed in what look like precise calendar years, figures seem somehow better ... 'Absolute' dates determined by a laboratory carry a lot of weight, and are extremely helpful in bolstering weak arguments.

"No matter how 'useful' it is, though, the radiocarbon method is still not capable of yielding accurate and reliable results. There are gross discrepancies, the chronology is uneven and relative, and the accepted dates are actually selected dates. This whole bless thing is nothing but 13th-century alchemy, and it all depends upon which funny paper you read."

Robert E. Lee, "Radiocarbon: ages in error". Anthropological Journal of Canada, vol.19(3), 1981, pp.9-29. Reprinted in the Creation Research Society Quarterly, vol. 19(2), September 1982, pp. 117-127 (quotes from pp. 123 and 125)
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 03:42 pm
Quote:
"The intelligent layman has long suspected circular reasoning in the use of rocks to date fossils and fossils to date rocks. The geologist has never bothered to think of a good reply, feeling that explanations are not worth the trouble as long as the work brings results. This is supposed to be hard-headed pragmatism."

J. E. O'Rourks, "Pragmatism versus materialism in stratigraphy". American Journal of Science, vol. 276, January 1976, p. 47
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 04:25 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Quehoniaomath wrote:

DNA bla bla bla is NOT macro evolution mate!


You are just trolling at this point. I have already pointed out in other threads that WE are the evidence of macro evolution. Why is it we have genes that we don't use that are connected to common ancestors with other species?

How would you explain this link if macro evolution were not true? You can't. You just NEED it to be false so you can feel better about your nonsense.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 06:40 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

... as FBM is trying to convince us with his straw man of the aliens.


Here's my "evidences" that what I say you claim isn't a strawman:

Herald wrote:

... my personal are God or some meta-intelligence (string theory) or s.th.; 30% another ILF, sending the designs on the Earth even through some form of teleportation or another form of encoded communication (it might have extinct already by the time the information has came here), and perhaps 25% of the Big Bang and the theory that we are made out of star dust (whatever this might mean) and fused with the time by the Dark Energy and Dark Matter....


Where's your "evidences" that any of this mumbo jumbo is remotely plausible?

You don't understand something - some people may claim 45%/30%25% teleporting alien/ILF/god-but-not-god thingies appearing out of Nowhere and out of Nothing and Existing Outside Time without any Material Carrier WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE, but they cannot stop others from asking for evidence for a hypothesis that they pulled out of their wingnutty ass and expect others to take seriously when it's so blatantly self-contradictory and fallacious.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/your-argument-is-invalid-because-aliens.jpg
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 10:40 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:
Everything currently living IS evidence for macro evolution.
     May I name one thing that is not - Time. Time is not evolving, the Second does not become smaller or larger with the time, the period of the Caesium remains constant, and the best part of it is that Time is running in one direction - how did the stochastics of the macro-evolution 'guessed' to run the Time only in one direction? How did the stochastics of the macro-evolution 'guessed' to fix the speed of time?
Krumple wrote:
Why would we contain these genes if there was not a process by which we are related genetically?
     Because in the capacity of being (eventually) bio-robots we might have had common designer. There are still some DOS commands in the Windows OS, but this does not necessarily mean that the OS has evolved on auto-pilot from a 'common ancestor' without the interference of any Intelligence?
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 10:46 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
Here's my "evidences" that what I say you claim isn't a straw-man:
     The straw-man is in the three dots before the quote. This is a fuzzy logic example of agnostic belief, it has as an objective to illustrate how would a belief system of a person who beliefs that the assumptions of the creation (if created) of the Universe are unknowable - and they are unknowable here because the contradictions could not be resolved - nothing in the belief system is significantly above 50% to be approximated as one and accept the value of true. It is fuzzy logic example, only that and nothing else. It does not suppose that somebody could have personal problems with the aliens and that mentioning them in a hypothesis will unlatch a waterfall of broken records. The straw-man is that you are not using the example as intended (to discuss the hypothesis of the assumptions), but try to use it as implicit ad hom for some other purposes.
     ... and the Big Bang 'theory' is not solving any of these, not to say that it does not have that problem at all. One cannot derive the assumptions from a red shift and then explain by the same fake theory 'the Creation of the Universe'. What if the Universe has not been Created? Actually Creation supposes ID, for the other term is Emergence?
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 11:18 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
You are just trolling at this point. I have already pointed out in other threads that WE are the evidence of macro evolution. Why is it we have genes that we don't use that are connected to common ancestors with other species?

How would you explain this link if macro evolution were not true? You can't. You just NEED it to be false so you can feel better about your nonsense.


It seems the one who once to feel better is you.

I would say...the lady protest...too much.

You are only given circular reasonings. Nothing more.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2015 01:19 am
@Herald,
Blah blah blah. You've been told over and over again that I have no taste for red herring, especially when it comes with a side of word salad. You made the hypothesis. You claim it's as plausible as real science. So show us some evidence for your 40/35/25% teleporting alien/ILF/god-science creator thingy that's remotely as strong as that the scientists openly and freely publish. If you've got something, why hide it? You still got nothing.


4:0
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2015 01:49 am
@FBM,
Quote:
openly and freely publish


You must be joking! Or really be very very naive!
0 Replies
 
 

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