32
   

Intelligent Design vs. Casino Universe

 
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2014 03:54 am
@FBM,
It is a way of defending the undefendable.

Your looking for rationalisations why people deny evolution, instead of looking for the real reason, that is having no evidence,

You can't handle the truth

But one day you have to see, it is all a hoax of the highest order.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2014 10:41 am
@Quehoniaomath,
How many times per day do you trip over your beard?*


*Question is asked to determine the validity of a hypothesis.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2014 11:11 am
@FBM,
It can't possibly be '45% god' based on his own posts. There is no such thing as fractional belief in something; can't be partially pregnant.
Herald
 
  0  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2014 03:49 pm
@cicerone imposter,
     You are the one who are part of that probability. I know that you don't acknowledge any other evidence except for the red shift from the telescope, but the logical inferences and the reasonable ground to believe are also accepted as evidence by some sciences.
     If you remember you claimed that it is impossible to know the assumptions of the Big Bang, for if one knows the reason for the creation of something there always remains the question who/what created the reason itself, and after that who/what created the assumptions of that reason, and who/what created the assumptions of the assumptions, etc. So this very question is contradiction within the self, hence it is invalid ... for most of its interpretations. One of the few interpretations for which it is not invalid, is the case when the Universe has always existed and the Intelligence of the Universe has always existed (I don't comment whether this might be God, or String Theory, or a previous ILF, or the previous form of existence of our intelligence). The other few are the case when the reasons for the creation of something have always existed, but they far too improbable.
     When you eliminate the impossible there remains the improbable, notwithstanding that it has been always rejected. Have you ever heard about the logical inference based on Modus Tolendo Tolens ('the way that denies by denying'). As it is impossible for the Universe and for the Intelligence to have been created, there remains the exclusive option (although highly improbable and denied by science) for the Universe and for the Intelligence to have always existed, which automatically means that the Big Bang has not created anything, and we are most probably bio-robots on remote control or on relay race switch, or a form of existence of the intelligence in the Universe ... and in the capacity of being so we are most probably obliged to preserve the life in the Universe from extinction and to switch it over to the next inhabitable planet/world or whatever it might be there.
     Perhaps you should pay attention that this hypothesis preserves the physical law of conservation of energy (the hypothesis is feasible), and also the math logic laws for the possibility of existence exclusively when being released from contradictions within the self (plausibility) ... and everything is hunky-dori! lol
     Yet there remains some probability for us to be totally missing something ... or misinterpreting the things.
     Ah, I forgot the CBR - it comes most probably from the Hyperspace, and our space might have been formed by the constraints imposed from outside - the intersection of two 4-D spaces for example. This also preserves the law of conservation of energy for in this case our Universe is actually an open system with exchange of energy with the outside Hyperspace and there are no problems to exchange Dark Energy and Gravitation coming from the Dark Matter located in another dimension.
parados
 
  4  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2014 04:27 pm
@Herald,
It looks like when you get painted into a corner you just throw paint around and pretend everyone else is in a corner.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2014 06:53 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

It can't possibly be '45% god' based on his own posts. There is no such thing as fractional belief in something; can't be partially pregnant.


Ramen. Y'know, he'd better not let the god of the Old and/or New Testaments hear him say that ****. He'd be sucking Beelzebub's weiner in Hades in a flash. You got at least 100% faith or you got nothing.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Dec, 2014 08:45 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

     You are the one who are part of that probability. I know that you don't acknowledge any other evidence except for the red shift from the telescope, but the logical inferences and the reasonable ground to believe are also accepted as evidence by some sciences.
     If you remember you claimed that it is impossible to know the assumptions of the Big Bang, for if one knows the reason for the creation of something there always remains the question who/what created the reason itself, and after that who/what created the assumptions of that reason, and who/what created the assumptions of the assumptions, etc. So this very question is contradiction within the self, hence it is invalid ... for most of its interpretations. One of the few interpretations for which it is not invalid, is the case when the Universe has always existed and the Intelligence of the Universe has always existed (I don't comment whether this might be God, or String Theory, or a previous ILF, or the previous form of existence of our intelligence). The other few are the case when the reasons for the creation of something have always existed, but they far too improbable.
     When you eliminate the impossible there remains the improbable, notwithstanding that it has been always rejected. Have you ever heard about the logical inference based on Modus Tolendo Tolens ('the way that denies by denying'). As it is impossible for the Universe and for the Intelligence to have been created, there remains the exclusive option (although highly improbable and denied by science) for the Universe and for the Intelligence to have always existed, which automatically means that the Big Bang has not created anything, and we are most probably bio-robots on remote control or on relay race switch, or a form of existence of the intelligence in the Universe ... and in the capacity of being so we are most probably obliged to preserve the life in the Universe from extinction and to switch it over to the next inhabitable planet/world or whatever it might be there.
     Perhaps you should pay attention that this hypothesis preserves the physical law of conservation of energy (the hypothesis is feasible), and also the math logic laws for the possibility of existence exclusively when being released from contradictions within the self (plausibility) ... and everything is hunky-dori! lol
     Yet there remains some probability for us to be totally missing something ... or misinterpreting the things.
     Ah, I forgot the CBR - it comes most probably from the Hyperspace, and our space might have been formed by the constraints imposed from outside - the intersection of two 4-D spaces for example. This also preserves the law of conservation of energy for in this case our Universe is actually an open system with exchange of energy with the outside Hyperspace and there are no problems to exchange Dark Energy and Gravitation coming from the Dark Matter located in another dimension.


http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/10868211_692078160914574_4136180234971661654_n.jpg
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2014 01:10 am
@FBM,
http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/youre-*******-retarded2.jpg
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2014 01:16 am
@Herald,
Nice! Very Christian of you! Good to see you have a little spirit in you for something other than constructing meaningless piles of word salads.

So. Back to business. Why should we follow your ex recto "45% god, blah blah" over the centuries of work done by highly trained professionals? We need some solid motivation to believe that you're smarter than all of them put together. Whatcha got? Motivate us with some empirical support and necessary inference.
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2014 02:02 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
Why should we follow your ex recto "45% god, blah blah" over the centuries of work done by highly trained professionals?
     Because your claims of creation are in rude contradiction with fundamental laws of fundamental sciences (a 'standard' approach for assessing validity of statements).
FBM wrote:
We need some solid motivation to believe that you're smarter than all of them put together.
     No. this is ridicule of your own behavior - when you cite some statements irrelevant to the discussion and taken out of the original context, you are the one that 'believe that you're smarter than all of them put together'.
FBM wrote:
Motivate us with some empirical support and necessary inference.
     What inference do you need - the only way to stop asking the question who/what created whom & what, and out of what ... to infinity is to accept ex officio that the things and the beings have always existed. In order to preserve the law of conservation of energy, for example, you have to accept at least that the Energy of the Universe as we know it today (and that you will not be able to calculate for life) must have always existed.
     When and if you succeed to prove that the 3D-space can appear out of zero-D space you may start claiming that the Big Bang (if has ever happened) created whatsoever. Until then you are missing key assumptions.
     When and if you succeed to prove in a lab without biosphere that life can appear by simple stochastic arrangement of the chemical elements, you may start claiming that 'life has been created by who/what-so-ever'. Until then you are missing key processes.
     BTW haw far have you gone with the origin of the water on the Earth - where the key-phrases are "in pure form" and "in 'industrial' quantity". Pay attention that it is neither sulfuric acid, nor nitric acid, not even some hydrate - you have pure form and industrial quantity, only this and nothing else ... even not a stochastic function matching any stochastic distribution around in space.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2014 02:07 am
@Herald,
By way of illustration, let's compare the relative strengths of your claim and that of another random piece of scientific news. You say;

Herald wrote:

...my personal are 45% God or some meta-intelligence (string theory or s.th.); 30% another ILF...and perhaps 25% of the Big Bang ...


OK, the best thing that can be said about that is that you admit that it's your "personal," I guess, seeing as you presented no supporting details, evidence or reasoning.

Now let's look at an arbitrarily bit of current science news. I think the qualitative difference will be obvious to anyone not engulfed in denialism and fantasy: http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/141219/ncomms6814/full/ncomms6814.html

Quote:
NATURE COMMUNICATIONS | ARTICLE

Equivalence of wave–particle duality to entropic uncertainty

Patrick J. Coles, Jedrzej Kaniewski & Stephanie Wehner
AffiliationsContributionsCorresponding author
Nature Communications 5, Article number: 5814 doi:10.1038/ncomms6814
Received 14 May 2014 Accepted 11 November 2014 Published 19 December 2014


Abstract

Interferometers capture a basic mystery of quantum mechanics: a single particle can exhibit wave behaviour, yet that wave behaviour disappears when one tries to determine the particle’s path inside the interferometer. This idea has been formulated quantitatively as an inequality, for example, by Englert and Jaeger, Shimony and Vaidman, which upper bounds the sum of the interference visibility and the path distinguishability. Such wave–particle duality relations (WPDRs) are often thought to be conceptually inequivalent to Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle, although this has been debated. Here we show that WPDRs correspond precisely to a modern formulation of the uncertainty principle in terms of entropies, namely, the min- and max-entropies. This observation unifies two fundamental concepts in quantum mechanics. Furthermore, it leads to a robust framework for deriving novel WPDRs by applying entropic uncertainty relations to interferometric models. As an illustration, we derive a novel relation that captures the coherence in a quantum beam splitter.

Subject terms: Physical sciences Atomic and molecular physics Theoretical physics


Now, this is only an abstract, and the topic is irrelevant. But if you take your "personal" into a room of reasonably sane and educated individuals and try to convince them that your argument is stronger than that of the scientific publication, you'll deserve all the ridicule you get and probably more.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2014 02:13 am
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

     Because your claims of creation...


What creation? Where have I claimed that there is even such a thing? You're the one on the ID side. Do you not even pay attention to what you yourself write? http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/facepalm.gif

As to the rest of your inane babbling, give up on the god of the gaps, dude. Even your fellow ID'ers advise against that approach. Do try to keep up with your peers.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/god-of-gaps.jpg
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2014 03:35 am
@FBM,
well, you seem to be a firm bliever in the relgion of 'science'
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2014 05:30 am
@Herald,
Quote:

.
It is obvious that your 'standard' theory cannot make out of Ground Zero and Energy Zero directly Uranium 239 & Plutonium 242 .
In the first few seconds of the Big Bang, new partciles were being formed of older ones.Protons and neutrons formed out of quarks. Nucleosyntheis began and atomic nuclei began forming (This is pretty much what we see in the Cosmic Background Radiation). The Big Bang was pretty much incapable f producing elements heavier than the Helium Hydrogen isotopes and lithium(although Ive aways hd trouble understanding the "eta" ratios that predicted litium.
Star Furnaces then began as these masses of protons , netrons and isotopes began condensing nd fyusion began (Best "Guess" was about half a million years AFTER the Big Bang.
The "Star Furnaces" were the engines that actually created all these heavier elements .
I like Achim Weiss's paper on "cooking up the First Light elements"

As we can see, beyond forming up the entire pot f elements necessary to formation of planetary bodies , all this hs NOTHING to do with evolution, and is separate of it by billions pf years and physics and chemistry
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2014 06:24 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
By way of illustration
     Forget about that probability percents - they are subject to changes all the time. Why don't you tell us whether you have any plausible & feasible explanation for the appearance of the water on the Earth, or not?
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2014 06:26 am
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

FBM wrote:
By way of illustration
     Forget about that probability percents - they are subject to changes all the time. Why don't you tell us whether you have any plausible & feasible explanation for the appearance of the water on the Earth, or not?


Posted it pages earlier. Pay attention, please. Why don't you tell us whether you have any plausible & feasible explanation for the claim that an invisible, undetectable, magical being created the universe, or not?
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2014 06:28 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:

By way of illustration, let's compare the relative strengths of your claim and that of another random piece of scientific news. You say;

Herald wrote:

...my personal are 45% God or some meta-intelligence (string theory or s.th.); 30% another ILF...and perhaps 25% of the Big Bang ...


OK, the best thing that can be said about that is that you admit that it's your "personal," I guess, seeing as you presented no supporting details, evidence or reasoning.

Now let's look at an arbitrarily bit of current science news. I think the qualitative difference will be obvious to anyone not engulfed in denialism and fantasy: http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/141219/ncomms6814/full/ncomms6814.html

Quote:
NATURE COMMUNICATIONS | ARTICLE

Equivalence of wave–particle duality to entropic uncertainty

Patrick J. Coles, Jedrzej Kaniewski & Stephanie Wehner
AffiliationsContributionsCorresponding author
Nature Communications 5, Article number: 5814 doi:10.1038/ncomms6814
Received 14 May 2014 Accepted 11 November 2014 Published 19 December 2014


Abstract

Interferometers capture a basic mystery of quantum mechanics: a single particle can exhibit wave behaviour, yet that wave behaviour disappears when one tries to determine the particle’s path inside the interferometer. This idea has been formulated quantitatively as an inequality, for example, by Englert and Jaeger, Shimony and Vaidman, which upper bounds the sum of the interference visibility and the path distinguishability. Such wave–particle duality relations (WPDRs) are often thought to be conceptually inequivalent to Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle, although this has been debated. Here we show that WPDRs correspond precisely to a modern formulation of the uncertainty principle in terms of entropies, namely, the min- and max-entropies. This observation unifies two fundamental concepts in quantum mechanics. Furthermore, it leads to a robust framework for deriving novel WPDRs by applying entropic uncertainty relations to interferometric models. As an illustration, we derive a novel relation that captures the coherence in a quantum beam splitter.

Subject terms: Physical sciences Atomic and molecular physics Theoretical physics


Now, this is only an abstract, and the topic is irrelevant. But if you take your "personal" into a room of reasonably sane and educated individuals and try to convince them that your argument is stronger than that of the scientific publication, you'll deserve all the ridicule you get and probably more.


*polite cough*
0 Replies
 
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2014 06:28 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
What creation?
     The creation of the Universe through evolution (whatever this might mean); the creation of the chemical elements out of the gravitational continuum; the creation of the life on Earth out of a planet of molten lava, etc. You are the mastermind of the creation and the mastermind of all unjustified beliefs in the creativity of the stochastics - why don't you simply confess it?
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2014 06:30 am
@FBM,
Quote:
Why don't you tell us whether you have any plausible & feasible explanation for the claim that an invisible, undetectable, magical being created the universe, or not?


I really don't know if there is a god or not.
However, you assume that if there is a god it could be find by 'science'.
But is this true? Might it be possible that there is somethibng like a god, but
undetactable by science?
You see, if it can't be found in 'science' that doesnn't mean it isn't there, it ONLY means it can't be found by 'science'. Get it?
I really see you look at 'science' as a kind of religion!
You are way too positive about that relgion.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Dec, 2014 06:31 am
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

FBM wrote:
What creation?
     The creation of the Universe through evolution (whatever this might mean);


Evolution means change over time. Google will tell you that.

Quote:
the creation of the chemical elements out of the gravitational continuum; the creation of the life on Earth out of a planet of molten lava, etc. You are the mastermind of the creation and the mastermind of all unjustified beliefs in the creativity of the stochastics - why don't you simply confess it?


Because this is yet another block of incomprehensible word salad. Stawmen fallacies mixed together with psychobabble. In a word, airwank.
 

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