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Intelligent Design vs. Casino Universe

 
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Nov, 2013 03:11 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

farmerman wrote:
How do you know that the planet was Intelligently Designed??"

1. Within a radius of 2000 AU around us there is nothing that is even resembling the Earth.
Not surprising since the nearest star is a distance of 265,000 AU

Quote:

2. The orbit of the Earth in the SS is so precisely adjusted in a safe window in terms of Jupiter and Uranus not to be perturbed that it is highly improbable for this to have happened by chance (the probability for this is less than 10^-12) .
That is a silly argument. Because something is improbable isn't evidence of intelligent design. It's unlikely that the person that wins the lottery would be the one that won and yet we see lots of lottery winners.

Quote:

3. The CO2 processing - the Earth is the only known planet that has succeeded to reverse the CO2 accumulation in the air (not for so long, unfortunately).
How many planets have you examined outside the solar system? If we simply use the solar system as our odds of a planet doing that then we would have a 1 in 8 chance of any planet doing that.

Quote:

4. Stochastic events cannot form a long term tendency in one direction. What is the probability to hit 230 million times successively reds in a roulette?
It depends on how many roulette wheels you are using. If you use 1 quadrillion roulette wheels over 1 billion years with one spin per minute the odds are good that you will have multiple instances of that happening. But of course that ignores the fact that evolution doesn't require 230 million reds in succession to work.
What are the odds of 2 red haired parents having a red haired child? Now what are the odds of 230 million red haired parents all having red haired children? You completely ignore that evolution is not a roulette wheel. Each generation accumulates genes from their parents while introducing changes.

Quote:

5. The process of photosynthesis is so complex and so sophisticated that it could hardly have emerged by accidental event. It resembles much more precise computational design.
6. You don't have any plausible and convincing explanation - neither for the intelligence of our CNS, nor for the intelligence of the tissues at metabolic level.
If I throw a die 30 times, I could argue that the pattern was planned after the fact. It doesn't make it true.

Quote:

7. If we are all originating from worms, why the present-day worms have remained unevolved for decades of million years ... and the other worms evolved by evolution. How does that happen?
Evolution doesn't require that one species die for another to emerge. To argue that one species must die off for another to emerge shows complete ignorance about how evolution works. Evolution doesn't care if both species survive or not. The world is full of different habitats that allow for different species to evolve while the species that they evolve from continue to exist.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Nov, 2013 06:12 pm
@parados,
There is no such thing as species. It's a myth generated by taxonomists intended to wow you and generate income.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Nov, 2013 07:06 pm
Let's toss a few astronaut quotes into the playpen, I'm sure we all respect them..Smile -

On Christmas Eve 1968 the crew of Apollo 8 quoted from Genesis as they orbited the moon- "We are now approaching lunar sunrise and, for all the people back on Earth, the crew of Apollo 8 has a message that we would like to send to you- "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth..."

"God bless you" -Neil Armstrong in a TV broadcast from Apollo 11 thanking the spacecraft builders and technicians.

And when Armstrong and Aldrin walked on the moon the following year they left a plaque inscribed with "Here men from the planet Earth first set foot upon the Moon. July 1969 AD". (AD = 'year of our lord')

John Glenn said - "To look out at this kind of creation out here and not believe in God is to me impossible, it just strengthens my faith"

And Roger Chaffee said of the view of Earth- "The world itself looks cleaner and so much more beautiful. Maybe we can make it that way, the way God intended it to be"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Is not God in the heights of heaven? And see how lofty are the highest stars!..
..Reach out to God and he will reach out to you" (Job 22:12, James 4:8)
"Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
I’ve topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark nor even eagle flew
And, while with silent lifting mind I’ve trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God"
- John Gillespie Magee (WW2 pilot)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub4/space-shuttle-atlantis.jpg~original
parados
 
  3  
Reply Fri 15 Nov, 2013 08:14 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

There is no such thing as species. It's a myth generated by taxonomists intended to wow you and generate income.


I guess that explains why you have the sex life of a single celled organism. Wink
0 Replies
 
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2013 04:15 am
@dalehileman,
dalehileman wrote:
Even if there's only one inhabitable planet in each galaxy it's been estimated that there must be at least four quadrillion of us

And where are the TV shows and the radio communications of those 'four quadrillion'. Can you give an example of at least one ILF known (besides us)?
If the big bang has been 'doing the housework' throughout the universe in the last 13.5 BN years this 'housework' should not be much different from the events on the Earth. There must be asteroids, planets and other astronomical objects with cyanobacteria at least. Even if they are not cyanobacteria they should be methanobacteria or s.th. Even if the blood of the aliens is not based on iron (like ours), it should be based on copper or s.th., it should be at least analogous to our blood (except for being blue instead of red). Where are those alien animals and alien ILFs? Where is everybody - where are they ... and where are we?
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2013 04:55 am
@Herald,
Quote:
And where are the TV shows and the radio communications of those 'four quadrillion'.


You have absolutely no concept of intergalactic distances. You really are in over your head every time you open your mouth on these topics. (Your English still sucks, too--you wanted a question mark at the end of that sentence.)
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2013 05:46 am
@Herald,
Quote:

And where are the TV shows and the radio communications of those 'four quadrillion'. Can you give an example of at least one ILF known (besides us)?
Imagine , 155 years ago when Darwin's The Origin of Species... was published. Darwin had only (at best) 5 or 6 bases of evidence from which to draw. Today almost EVERYTHING that he anticipated to support his theory has been shown to be a fact.
So, anything that we may not know yet, gives us ammo for future research. Recently weve upped the number of "Earthlike planets" in our galaxy to millions and millions because of our abilities to detect these kinds of planets. Im sure that the number of planets with life and even intelligent life will follow. Itll only take some creative uses of spectra analyses at first, and then, later, Im sure we will deploy very powerful scopes in the Oort cloud (where itll take three light months to be able to"tune the damn thing onto fine focus"

SO far, NO evidence has come about to dispute Darwins theory and all the evidence supports it. DOESNT THAT EVEN ENTER YOUR MIND??

AND, I must reiterate that Evolution IS NOT A STOCHASTIC PROCESS, no matter what you say. If you wish to wow your ignorant Creationist and ID supporters that you know a big word, use one that is correct.

The huge genome of life seems to retin examples of the genetics of earlier forms. This alone tells us that the genome (which doesn't DRIVE evolution but records it) of all life is related by descendency. When a simple life form has arrived, future forms that are desecnedents have their genetic pathway fairly prescribed by whats already there.
The rest is population dynamics and adaptation to heretofore untested environments. (If you notice that, every epoch of the Cenozoic that involved glaciation had at least two repeating morphological features on mammals
1They grew larger (by fossils from each of the various PEOMPP strata)
2There was a "repeating" morphological feature in certain marsupials and felicids that we call "Sabre toothness"
3Protruberences on body mass of the "Megafaunal forms became almost a requirement.

When life forms are so predictable as to their place in the fossil record as to form and function, that's big news . CAn you claim anything similar? with your worldview?
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2013 05:55 am
@Herald,
Quote:
Where are those alien animals and alien ILFs? Where is everybody - where are they ... and where are we?

AHHH Grasshopper. we must learn to crawl before we can teleport ourselves around the galaxy.

I always notice that the Creationists arguments are based upon a "forward moving burden of proof" Whenever we show conclusively that life forms are descendent and we can PREDICT the locations of intermediate fossils, the Creationists don't admit to the significance of that finding, they just move forward to areas that we haven't been addressed yet.

Weve found many "missing links" on eart so , instead of dealing with the significance of that, Herald would have us predict where life forms are in outer space.
Im not good at guessing so Im gonna wait until planetary budgets allow us to really explore the Milky WAy. Right now youre asking questions more from a stance of "Thisll stump em" rather than being really interested in life out there and understanding how life developed here.

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2013 06:27 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
AND, I must reiterate that Evolution IS NOT A STOCHASTIC PROCESS, no matter what you say


It seems to me that it is. What evidence have you that it isn't? Leaving out the attentions of a designer.

Isn't a grouping around a target exactly what happens in every reproductive instance? And evolution is dependent upon reproductive instances.

Suppose, on one of those millions of millions of as yet undiscovered planets, and that idea is a tried and tested marker for a madman, it is the survival of the weakest that is the ruling principle. A proper democracy. Where the meek have inherited . Bankers, military adventurers, gymnasiums, and all the tiresome trappings of the cult, the archaic machismo religion, to them, having been selected out by trial and error despite various heresies in respect of umpires, referees, watchdogs, oversight committees and peace keeping operations and down-thumbing lingering on in genteel lower-middle-class discourse as an atavistic throwback of their evolved condition.

Could you rule that out with millions and millions of possibilities to go at?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2013 06:32 am
@spendius,
We either get there or perish.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2013 07:23 am
@spendius,
Quote:

It seems to me that it is. What evidence have you that it isn't? Leaving out the attentions of a designer.


The major reason that your questions aren't answered is because,had you taken the time to read other previous posts (as well as the one you clipped), Youd have a perfectly sound and compelling answer.
Most of your questions are gainsay with an added question mark. Hardly well thought out or reasoned. Why should anyone bother?
Do you even give a ****?
Have you any interest in science at all?
Why is your shirt front all full of puke?
Are you getting enough cheese?
Why have they taken your drivers license?
Do you still molest old women?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2013 07:37 am
@farmerman,
That's one way of avoiding difficult questions. It's long winded though and something of a Houdini punch.

It's like jumping out of the shadows shouting BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! in a kindergarten.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2013 10:16 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
When I speak of the importance of scientific method in regard to the conduct of human life, I am thinking of scientific method in its mundane forms. Not that I would undervalue science as a metaphysic, but the value of science as metaphysic belongs in another sphere. It belongs with religion and art and love, with the pursuit of the beatific vision, with the Promethean madness that leads the greatest men to strive to become gods. Perhaps the only ultimate value of human life is to be found in this Promethean madness. But it is a value that is religious , not political, or even moral.


Bertrand Russell.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2013 01:35 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
(Your English still sucks, too--you wanted a question mark at the end of that sentence.)


Says Setanta, the language boob.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2013 05:51 pm
@spendius,
Russell never admitted his atheism among his philosophical peers . he feared that would spark "Unpleasantness". That's why his "logicism" was a joke. He was like the mule that starved between two equal hay bales.

PS, it was a beautiful Saturday. I got a half a cord of wood split and stacked. I love mindless physical work.
Tomorrow (if its nice)Im building a new saw buck out of cypress , so I can leave it in the woods all year without rotting ,AND Im planting about 50 new crocus bulbs
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2013 06:02 pm
@farmerman,
Like yourself old chap.

When are you going to defend your assertion that " Evolution IS NOT A STOCHASTIC PROCESS" and when are you going to explain why truth has an evolutionary advantage over faith?

Quote:
I got a half a cord of wood split and stacked.


I just adjust the thermostat as occasion requires.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2013 06:05 pm
@Herald,
Parados did a wonderful job of bringing the light to you that I hope you can finally "get it"
PS, you were so obsessed about "Photosynthesis being so complex it couldn't develop naturally"

You realize that there are 3 distinct fashions of photosynthesis (we discussed the plant types before when you were obsessed with declining CO2).
There are the C3, C4, and CAM plant types , each with a unique style of photosynthesis

[/quote]
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2013 06:08 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Russell never admitted his atheism among his philosophical peers .

I think that's misleading; it suggests that Russel withheld his true beliefs from his fellow philosophers, which he didn't. Russell merely acknowledged that the term "atheism" bears a slightly broader meaning in general usage than it does in philosophical usage. Consequently, he considered himself an atheist for purposes of everyday life, but an agnostic for purposes of philosophy seminars. He even published an essay on the matter, in which he addressed the issue forthrightly:

In his essay 'Am I an Atheist or an Agnostic?', Bertrand Russel wrote:
I never know whether I should say "Agnostic" or whether I should say "Atheist". It is a very difficult question and I daresay that some of you have been troubled by it. As a philosopher, if I were speaking to a purely philosophic audience I should say that I ought to describe myself as an Agnostic, because I do not think that there is a conclusive argument by which one prove that there is not a God.

On the other hand, if I am to convey the right impression to the ordinary man in the street I think I ought to say that I am an Atheist, because when I say that I cannot prove that there is not a God, I ought to add equally that I cannot prove that there are not the Homeric gods.

None of us would seriously consider the possibility that all the gods of homer really exist, and yet if you were to set to work to give a logical demonstration that Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, and the rest of them did not exist you would find it an awful job. You could not get such proof.

Therefore, in regard to the Olympic gods, speaking to a purely philosophical audience, I would say that I am an Agnostic. But speaking popularly, I think that all of us would say in regard to those gods that we were Atheists. In regard to the Christian God, I should, I think, take exactly the same line.

Read the full article
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2013 06:09 pm
@farmerman,
Don't you ever wonder why you love mindless physical work?

Evolution abhors such a ridiculous attitude.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2013 06:14 pm
@spendius,
why would I wonder why? I just do.
Do you wonder why you like beer?
Do you wonder why your breath smells like dead buffalo fish?
Do you wonder why you have all those restraining orders against you?
Do you wonder why you are obsessed with lingerie?
0 Replies
 
 

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