Intelligent Design vs. Casino Universe

Prehistoric "Cattedown Man" and his mates used to live in caves in that cliff face half a mile across the water from me in Plymouth-

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/cattedown2.gif~original

Gosh I can almost see myself in his features, I must have inherited his DNA-

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Cattedown-1.gif~original

0 Replies

@Herald,

Herald wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Make it just one thing...and we can discuss it until it is crystal clear.

Do you believe in abiogenesis & what evidences do you have in support to this?

I do not do "believing" at all, Herald...so the answer to your question is "NO."

Apparently you have a problem with math. I said "one item."

"One item" means less than two or more.

Let's discuss this one item...and then go on to other things when my take on it becomes "clear" to you.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

The conclusion is that , unless there were some event of pangenesis (qs Fred Hoyle liked) , life appeared an developed on the planet from basic chemicals and physical substances.

Does this 'life appeared and developed on the planet from basic chemicals and physical substances' mean that you believe in the abiogenesis?

further wrote:

... like clay minerals, which can selectively rearrange other compounds it comes in contact with.

Yes, we all know about the property of the clay minerals to collect potassium and calcium ions and to exchange them for cadmium and lead, but clays are not living matter, right?
Can you show an example in which clays are major building blocks of a living organism and perform body metabolism? The replacement of the chemicals in the clays is simple chemical reduction process, and has nothing to do with the biological metabolism with the living organisms.
Why don't you tell us how does the body metabolism work?
The fact that the fiction novel and the computer software use one and the same letters does not necessarily mean that the computer software has been made somehow by 'acompugenesis' from the text of the novel. The presence of one and the same components cannot be used as a justification for causality.
Even if you succeed to explain the origin of the structure (of which I doubt), you will never succeed to explain on the ground of the fossil records the bio-processing functionality of the living matter.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Apparently you have a problem with math. I said "one item."

I understand 'one item' in figurative sense 'at least one thing that I have turned into mumbo-jumbo'.
O.K., let's have this one item: abiogeneis
1. You don't believe in anything, hence you claim that there is no way for you to believe in the abiogenesis.
2. If you don't believe in the abiogenesis, and if you don't believe in anything you know with a certainty everything, like for example who, how, and when created the living matter ... and our intelligence?
3. If you are so well acquainted with the things why don't you share your knowledge with us, the simple mortal.

1 Reply

@Herald,

Herald wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Apparently you have a problem with math. I said "one item."

I understand 'one item' in figurative sense 'at least one thing that I have turned into mumbo-jumbo'.
O.K., let's have this one item: abiogeneis
1. You don't believe in anything, hence you claim that there is no way for you to believe in the abiogenesis.
2. If you don't believe in the abiogenesis, and if you don't believe in anything you know with a certainty everything, like for example who, how, and when created the living matter ... and our intelligence?
3. If you are so well acquainted with the things why don't you share your knowledge with us, the simple mortal.

I do not do "believing" is what I said.

I still say that I do not do "believing."

The answer to your question above remains..."NO."

I have no idea of why you think that "I do not do believing" means that I am asserting that I know everything with certainty...but that is a problem with which you must deal.

Let me ask you a question: If I say "I do not believe 'X'"...are you equating that with me saying that "I do believe not-'X'?"

And if so...why on Earth would you?

1 Reply

@Herald,

Quote:

Does this 'life appeared and developed on the planet from basic chemicals and physical substances' mean that you believe in the abiogenesis?

Remember that
ACCEPRANCE WITHOUT PROOF is the main characteristic of western religion:REJECTION WITHOUT PROOF is the main characteristic of western science.
Since Im satisfied with the evidence that supports abiogenesis, I accept that theory (until a better, more satisfying one shows its evidence>
DOES that answer your question. (I know the word "belief" is a bugaboo among various folks on this thread but In this case I don't accept the assertion that "belief" makes something a religion. Its merely playing with words, and the evidentiary outcomes are waay more significant than the descriptors.

CLAYS do much more than merely "exchange cations", they can rearrange layers of reactants , they can selectively adsorb and desorb weak bonded mineral components and they can also affect water layers in minerals and urface reactions. Clays are an area where present research is focusing upon the "creation" of a living cell.
I don't think anyone has successfully accomplished this yet. The science involved and the tools available have undergone major advancements in the last 10 years or so and maybe we will see the answer that you seek in another decade? maybe not.
Whereas science doesn't merely default to an "infinite intelligence" when they don't hve an answer, they work harder until n nswer is found.

Quote:

Quote:
Why don't you tell us how does the body metabolism work?

Why must I do your homework laddie? Im sure you can find a wiki site and read for yourself. Your just happy that I use understandable English(lthough my spelling isn't so good)

Quote:

you will never succeed to explain on the ground of the fossil records the bio-processing functionality of the living matter.

That used to be one of my best lectures to classes. People would come from all around to her my tracing of the history of life through the fossil record.m sorry your mind is made up before you learn anything.

Do I detect a little frustration and panic in your posts? I detect a bit of an accent in the last post .

2 Replies

@farmerman,

Quote:

Whereas science doesn't merely default to an "infinite intelligence" when they don't have an answer, they work harder until an answer is found.

They'll never be able to detect earthquakes and hurricanes and tsunamis like animals can do and they don't need to be told when wintertime is coming.

Where's the progress in that?

And male animals wear all the best gear.

2 Replies

@spendius,

never use "never"

0 Replies

@spendius,

And they don't painfully waste their time building things like pyramids and Senate Houses and boats to take trips to look at us.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

I have no idea of why you think that "I do not do believing" means that I am asserting that I know everything with certainty.

Because it is the natural way of getting information and knowledge acquisition. You acquire knowledge and assign to it beliefs (whether you believe in what you are hearing & seeing or not). After that appears some blog on the net and you start to perform belief revision (you increase some of the beliefs, decrease some other, assign new ones to new statements and strike off others). This is the natural process of verification & validation of the information flow that is showering you every day on Internet, on the mass media, on the Satellite TV etc.
When one is not doing this:
- usually either he accepts everything as truth of the last resort (depending on that who said it ... and whether he is from your party and you like him or not), OR
- he rejects everything as lies and manipulations (depending on that who said it ... and whether he is from the opposition, or you don't like him by some other reason).
In this case is said that the guy is thinking that he knows everything.
If somebody knows everything it is not entirely useless to share it with the world ... otherwise his solid knowledge and understanding of the world might remain unused.

0 Replies

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Since Im satisfied with the evidence that supports abiogenesis ...

... and which and what are they ... if it is not some secret?

further wrote:

CLAYS do much more than merely "exchange cations", they can rearrange layers of reactants , they can selectively adsorb and desorb weak bonded mineral components and they can also affect water layers in minerals and urface reactions. Clays are an area where present research is focusing upon the "creation" of a living cell.

Are you talking about sterile clay minerals or common clays full of clay-specific bacteria, etc.?

1 Reply

@Herald,

Quote:

How did you come to know that they are 'most civilized' ... if they are killing each other like wild beasts.

It was another lame attempt by Max to explain away the behavior of his own country, the very one that is supposed to be the savior of the oppressed, when in fact it is the grandest oppressor of the lot. The killing is in fact the province of the putative 'most civilized', the USA.

0 Replies

@Herald,

Quote:

Even if that were true: the Bill of Rights remains IMMUNE and remains INTACT.

I feel that we are in two different discussions. One that Im responding and the second in which you are NOT reading what Ive posted.
Its pretty obvious that, with evidence for the appearance of life in such a slow , nondirected basis with the longest times spent with the very simplest life forms , we have evidence that life WAS NOT created in a blinding effort of intelligence.
I like the present reserqch tht is looking at several "models" of how life could hve developed and many of these hqcve actually created a cell, (with cell wall) or hve synthesized biopolymer molecules tht ctully replicate themselves.
Craig Venter, taking Eiger's early work to heart, has been removing genes from prokaryotes to see what is the simplest component of their genetic material that will support an actul
Living cell"

As far as clay, Im talking about clay Minerals not
clay sized particles)(I assume they re all originally sterile). Clay minerals fall into several groups each of which has special properties , and are used for specific applications (some help polymerize cation chains, others help injecting water, another expands the crystal lattices of associated compounds.)

3 Replies

@farmerman,

Quote:

we have evidence that life WAS NOT created in a blinding effort of intelligence.

We do not and never will have.

1 Reply

@spendius,

So you state that the rise of life was an example of "intelligence" eh?
Or are you just in the normal spendi throes of being contrary to anything that smacks of thinking?

As you said earlier, you support".Faith over truth"

1 Reply

But Jesus said God created everything, why would he lie?
---------------

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/swag80_zps72962e87.gif~original

0 Replies

@farmerman,

Quote:

So you state that the rise of life was an example of "intelligence" eh?

I stated nothing of the sort.

It is you who isn't thinking old boy. You should lie in bed in the morning half awake for a couple of hours meditating. You're too busy to think. Some psychologists say that people busy themselves in order to avoid thinking because they are frightened of where it might lead them.

Quote:

As you said earlier, you support".Faith over truth"

I did not. I asked you to explain the evolutionary advantages of truth compared to faith. That you ducked the question is not a reason to make your assertions. Nor does it disguise the fact that you did duck the question.

If I allow myself to indulge is speculation I would say that truth will see the end of the human species. That it will select us out.

If Mrs Obarmy pressures Mr Obarmy to stop smoking to save her children's lives why did she have children in the first place when doing so necessarily exposed them to the tribulations which life is subject to.

Americans voted for a smoker and have got a non-smoker going through withdrawal.

0 Replies

Spendius said:

Quote:

Americans voted for a smoker and have got a non-smoker going through withdrawal

Good point, America is lumbered with a tobacco-junkie as President.. Smile

---------------

0 Replies

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

...
we have evidence that life WAS NOT created in a blinding effort of intelligence.

Intelligent Design vs. Casino Universe

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know