Intelligent Design vs. Casino Universe

@Quehoniaomath,

Quote:

you really do not understand where I am coming from and what I am saying.

I assume youre coming from somewhere in the UK , as for what you are saying? You really haven't said bt one thing and that seems to be a mantra with you.

When you say something you think is worth discussing, let me know.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

can believe that you even know of what you are speaking.

Obviously I am not alone (that does not know what is this thread all about).
You claim that the biocode 'has appeared' in the physical world as a result of stochastic processes. You claim that the evolution of the species is driven exclusively by stochastic processes and that the ID has nothing to do with it, hence your personal intelligence has nothing to do with deterministic processes (as it is a direct result of stochastic-driven evolution) from where automatically follows that your personal intelligence is genuine stochastics ... which means that you can infer everything with or without any sound assumptions and with or without any justification ... so far you have some qualifications at hand to throw at whoever you find appropriate for the purpose.

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@Herald,

Herald...you may be the one to ask.
Can you tell me what exactly is so intelligent about Homosapien-sapien's design?

1 Reply

@giujohn,

giujohn wrote:

WHAT???

Your understanding of the religion is that it is nothing more than 'absolute power that corrupts absolutely', and the understanding of most agnostics about religion is that we cannot judge anything without seeing the big picture and having the whole information and understanding the general idea - in this case what is this 'salvation' all about and why does God 'love us' ... and what is that supposed to mean?
If you are looking for the objective truth and pretend that you know it, you should be definitely able to explain 'salvation' and 'God loves us' with your personal understanding of the things - that religion is absolute power that corrupts absolutely.
IMV religion is not about money and power ... and a glaring example of this is the expelling of the money-changers and the usurers from the shrine. The big question here besides What??? is also Why?
Why Jesus has gotten so angry at the usurers and the money-changers in the shrine? What are the threats (for us and for our salvation ... whatever it may mean) that he has seen ... and we cant see? ... and why have you gotten so interested in explaining everything with money and power that 'corrupt absolutely'?

1 Reply

@giujohn,

giujohn wrote:

Can you tell me what exactly is so intelligent about Homosapien-sapien's design?

Everything. The very fact that the study of the medical sciences is based on phenomenology (clinical experience and observation of macro-processes) without understanding the nano-processes driving all this is only one of the few. Can you give an example of stochastics (with sufficient evidences that it is stochastics, only stochastics and nothing else ... incl. compliance with the math laws of probabilistic distribution) that has build so complex processes (by pure chance) ... anywhere in the physical world?

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Absolute power does not corrupt absolutely when your salvation is that God loves you.

It may be true that the absolute power corrupts absolutely but even more true is that the power of God has nothing to do with the petty human understanding of absolute rule, for it is about salvation of the human species from its own greed and stupidity and its doom to get extinguished before it recognizes what it is doing ... and when and if we start understanding this we may get to know who is God, why should God love us and what ID is all about.

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@Herald,

Quote:

You claim that the evolution of the species is driven exclusively by stochastic processes and that the ID has nothing to do with it,

No I don't. Since the start of your thread hereyou've been subbing "Stochasticism" as the Prime directive of evolution and that's bullshit. neither does it "default" to
ID . stop feeding words and phrases for others , its a cheap trick .

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

No I don't.

FM, you don't understand something. It is either stochastic or deterministic. Determinism means that the sequence of events happening in one's life are pre-deremined or programed in advance. Every single quantum state in a chromosome determines something of your development - when your tooth will start shaking and at what stage of irresponsible nutrition the blood pressure will go north.

farmerman wrote:

you've been subbing "Stochasticism" as the Prime directive of evolution and that's bullshit. neither does it "default" to
ID.

O.K. just say it explicitely - is evolution pure stochastics, or it is pure determinism or it is a combination of both?
If it is stochstics for 3.6 Bys of evolutionary development no distinguished species should have remained by now - everybody should be mixed with something else.
The evolution theory claims that we are worms in our nature - epitellium tissue, connective tissue, nervous tissue, muscles, etc.
Can you answer this why did some of the worms evolved ... into humans and some other worms remained for 550 Mya where they have always been - into the Earth?

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@Herald,

no species evolved from other species. There is just very simple no evidence, only wishfull thining.

1 Reply

@Herald,

Quote:

You can be a thorough-going Neo-Darwinian without imagination, metaphysics, poetry, conscience or decency. For ‘Natural Selection’ has no moral significance: it deals with that part of evolution which has no purpose, no intelligence, and might more appropriately be called accidental selection, or better still, un-natural selection since nothing is more un-natural than an accident. If it could be proved that the whole universe had been produced by such selection, only fools and rascals
could bear to live.

George Bernard Shaw.

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@Herald,

Well, I'm only concerned with how intelligent man's "design" is, and you stated, "everything"...hmmm, so how come I dont have the eyesight of a hawk, the nose of a bloodhound, the strength of a gorilla (at least), and the speed of a gazelle? Why cant I fly?
You would think if someone was intelligent and was edevoring to design a creature, that one would give that design the very best,wouldnt you?

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@giujohn,

Quote:

so how come I dont have the eyesight of a hawk

Perhaps you do but don't know it.

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the nose of a bloodhound

You would be unlikely to mate if you had and thus evolution would destroy such a mutation. And you would be too distracted by faint fragrances to get anything done.

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the strength of a gorilla (at least)

Your parents would have found you impossible to discipline.

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the speed of a gazelle?

The physical attributes required would be unsuitable for escorting the bride away from the altar after her father had set his seal of approval on you engaging in certain activities with his daughter, and a minister of religion had signified God's acquiescence.

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Why cant I fly?

Because wings prevent the ability to post on A2K. And without that ability the questions could not be asked.

1 Reply

@giujohn,

Quote:

You would think if someone was intelligent and was edevoring to design a creature, that one would give that design the very best,wouldnt you?

What particular design flaws have you in mind?

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@spendius,

Quote:

Because wings prevent the ability to post on A2K. And without that ability the questions could not be asked.

Ah...you assume that my arms/hands would be wings only...but an inteligent designer would give me both.

1 Reply

@giujohn,

Quote:

but an inteligent designer would give me both.

I don't agree. Arms would encumber flying by their weight and in an atmospheric environment would be quickly selected out. Wings would similarly encumber ground movement by the size needed if a 150lbs chap is to get airborne.

The design is perfect.

1 Reply

@spendius,

uh...Superman???

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@Herald,

In a universe of indeterminate evolutionary outcomes (assuming that the first step="life", has been achieved,) an incalculable number of ULTIMATE outcomes cn occur with almost Brownin randomness . THATS stochaticism. ONCE life has established itself and the first steps hve proceeded, its no longer a series of random vents. You can scream s loud as you wish, it just isn't so.
The great 10 ideas of evolution have limited the number of phylogenetic responses that are possible in the great game of adaptation.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Quote:

In a universe of indeterminate evolutionary outcomes (assuming that the first step="life", has been achieved,) an incalculable number of ULTIMATE outcomes cn occur with almost Brownin randomness . THATS stochaticism. ONCE life has established itself and the first steps hve proceeded, its no longer a series of random vents. You can scream s loud as you wish, it just isn't so.
The great 10 ideas of evolution have limited the number of phylogenetic responses that are possible in the great game of adaptatio

Comme on man, evolutionair biologhist see it as a random process!

ah well, the whole idea itself is ridiculous to the extreme.

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@Quehoniaomath,

Quehoniaomath wrote:

no species evolved from other species.

Exactly - the cats remain cats and the dogs stay as dogs. They are neither mixing nor interbreeding,
... and the next logical question is:
If no species evolve from other species, how did the first procariots appeared 3.5 Bya ... and out of what?

1 Reply

@Herald,

actually, there is very interesting experiment where insect appeared out of nothing!

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Intelligent Design vs. Casino Universe

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