4

Electromagnetism

Sun 27 Oct, 2013 11:58 am
Electromagnetism relates the science of electricity to magnetism it is the study of relation between these two properties of matter.
can any one describe how this two are inter related and how can we describe the creation of one with change in other?
• Topic Stats
• Top Replies
Type: Discussion • Score: 4 • Views: 1,335 • Replies: 16
No top replies

timur

2
Sun 27 Oct, 2013 12:10 pm
You cannot really describe easily the relationship between the two.

They relate through a long list of electromagnetism equations.
0 Replies

fresco

1
Sun 27 Oct, 2013 01:36 pm
@Abhinandan,
I have always found a 3D picture of a spinning disc useful in understanding the relationship.
Circling electic current produces an axial magnetic field vector, and symetrically, a linear current is associated with a circular magnetic field surrounding it.
0 Replies

timur

1
Sun 27 Oct, 2013 01:56 pm
Not sure it's useful for all levels.

Want to do some rap?

0 Replies

farmerman

1
Sun 27 Oct, 2013 03:18 pm
@Abhinandan,
A flowing current can produce a magnetic field and, two magnetic fields in motion with respect to each other can induce an electrical current.
Based upon a series of interrelated field equations, the two are the bases for all geophysical measurements with the exception of seismics.

How far in math are you? are you familiar with the del operator?

Theres an exercise book by Thilde,Carozzi et al.

www.plasma.uu.se/CED Itll start you at an entry point an advance you as far as you can stand as a student.
Good Luck
BillRM

1
Sun 27 Oct, 2013 05:51 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
How far in math are you? are you familiar with the del operator?

Dealing with Maxwell Equations take one hell of a heavy math background beginning with vector calculus just to start with.

I remember at the height of my mathematical abilities getting a headache over dealing with handling one partial differential equations after another and integrating flux fields in three dimensions.

I would have killed then to have access to the computer power we all now take for granted even one of my netbooks.
0 Replies

Thomas

1
Sun 27 Oct, 2013 06:02 pm
@Abhinandan,
Abhinandan wrote:
can any one describe how this two are inter related and how can we describe the creation of one with change in other?

I think you want to search the web for "Maxwell's equations".
0 Replies

Brandon9000

1
Sat 9 Nov, 2013 08:24 pm
A magnetic field is just an electric field that appears to certain observers because of relativistic effects. For instance, the magnetic field around a current carrying wire arises because special relativity makes the charge density appear to be inhomogeneous.
BillRM

1
Sat 9 Nov, 2013 08:53 pm
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
the magnetic field around a current carrying wire arises because special relativity makes the charge density appear to be inhomogeneous

Since when???????????????

Poor Einstein spend the last decades of his life trying to tied in his theories with electromagnetic fields to achieved a unified field theory without any luck and so far no one have done any better..
0 Replies

Brandon9000

1
Sat 9 Nov, 2013 09:16 pm
Since special relativity was discovered at the beginning of the 20th century. See, for instance:

http://www.chip-architect.com/physics/Magnetism_from_ElectroStatics_and_SR.pdf

You have a degree in Physics, then, or equivalent qualifications? A unified field theory would allow all four forces to be described by a single field, and no one has succeeded in doing that. The relationship between electricity and magnetism has been understood for a long time.
BillRM

1
Sat 9 Nov, 2013 09:27 pm
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
You have a degree in Physics, then, or equivalent qualifications?

I have an engineer background in the subject of Physics and a far more detail knowledge of Maxwell equations due to my degree being in electronic.

An of course I am aware by reason of personal interests in the history of science as a whole and the attempts to achieved a UFT dating back to Einstein works in this area in the 1950s.

Now Brandon what is your background to claimed that there is now an existing UFT that is accepted to any degree.
Brandon9000

1
Sat 9 Nov, 2013 09:28 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
You have a degree in Physics, then, or equivalent qualifications?

I have an engineer background on the subject of Physics and a far more detail knowledge of Maxwell equations due to my degree being in electronic.

An of course I am aware by reason of personal interests in the history of science as a whole and the attempts to achieved a UFT dating back to Einstein works in this area in the 1950s.

Now Brandon what is your background to claimed that there is now an existing UFT that is accepted to any degree.

Two physics degrees. Just go to the link. And I didn't say there was a unified field theory, which would unite all four forces. I said that the relationship between the electric and magnetic fields is understood. The four actual fundamental forces are electric, gravitational, strong nuclear, and weak nuclear. The magnetic force is just a byproduct of the electric force.
BillRM

1
Sat 9 Nov, 2013 09:32 pm
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
Two physics degrees. Just go to the link.

You have two physics degrees and are claiming that there is a UFT that is accepted currently?

Must had missed that announcement in the Science American magazine!!!!!!!

Amazing as a UFT had been the goal for the last 70 years at least that an accepted theory had been produce that is not widely known.

Oh I am not talking about any UFT theory I am talking about an accepted theory as Einstein himself came up with any number of UFT theories but none held up.
Brandon9000

1
Sat 9 Nov, 2013 09:34 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Two physics degrees. Just go to the link.

You have two physics degrees and are claiming that there is a UFT that is accepted currently?

Must had missed that announcement in the Science American magazine!!!!!!!

Like I said, the four fundamental forces are electric, gravitational, strong nuclear, and weak nuclear. The magnetic force isn't even a fundamental force.
BillRM

1
Sat 9 Nov, 2013 09:45 pm
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
Like I said, the four fundamental forces are electric, gravitational, strong nuclear, and weak nuclear. The magnetic force isn't even a fundamental force

LOL and like I am saying there is no accepted UFT currently and Maxwell field equations are used to express the relationships between electric and magnetic fields an it have zero repeat zero to do with Einstein relativity that anyone to date had shown at least.
Brandon9000

1
Sat 9 Nov, 2013 10:01 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Like I said, the four fundamental forces are electric, gravitational, strong nuclear, and weak nuclear. The magnetic force isn't even a fundamental force

LOL and like I am saying there is no accepted UFT currently and Maxwell field equations are used to express the relationships between electric and magnetic fields an it have zero repeat zero to do with Einstein relativity that anyone to date had shown at least.

Clearly, you didn't even look at the link. A unified field theory would connect the electric, gravitational, strong nuclear, and weak nuclear forces. No one has done that and it has zero to do with the relationship between electric and magnetic forces. Physicists don't regard the magnetic force as being a separate force, since it is derivable from the electric force using special relativity. This stuff has been understood for a long time. Here's another description of this for you not to look at. I'm done with you.

http://web.hep.uiuc.edu/home/g-gollin/relativity/p112_relativity_14.html
0 Replies

BillRM

1
Sun 10 Nov, 2013 06:27 am
Quote:

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/38151/does-special-relativity-make-magnetic-fields-irrelevant

relativity makes the existence of magnetic fields an inevitable consequence of the existence of electric fields. In the inertial system B moving relatively to the inertial system A, purely electric fields from A will look like a combination of electric and magnetic fields in B. According to relativity, both frames are equally fit to describe the phenomena and obey the same laws.

So special relativity removes the independence of the concepts (independence of assumptions about the existence) of electricity and magnetism. If one of the two fields exists, the other field exists, too. They may be unified into an antisymmetric tensor, Fμν.

However, what special relativity doesn't do is question the independence of values of the electric fields and magnetic fields. At each point of spacetime, there are 3 independent components of the electric field E→ and three independent components of the magnetic field B→: six independent components in total. That's true for relativistic electrodynamics much like the "pre-relativistic electrodynamics" because it is really the same theory!

Magnets are different objects than electrically charged objects. It was true before relativity and it's true with relativity, too.

It may be useful to notice that the situation of the electric and magnetic fields (and phenomena) is pretty much symmetrical. Special relativity doesn't really urge us to consider magnetic fields to be "less fundamental". Quite on the contrary, its Lorentz symmetry means that the electric and magnetic fields (and phenomena) are equally fundamental. That doesn't mean that we can't consider various formalisms and approximations that view magnetic fields – or all electromagnetic fields – as derived concepts, e.g. mere consequences of the motion of charged objects in spacetime. But such formalisms are not forced upon us by relativity.
0 Replies

Related Topics

CATHODE RAYS ARE NOT CATHODE RAYS! - Discussion by Mitko Gorgiev
THE FLEMING'S LEFT HAND RULE IS NOT VALID! - Discussion by Mitko Gorgiev
A new theory of the electric current! - Discussion by Mitko Gorgiev
What is a battery? - Discussion by Mitko Gorgiev
Faraday's law of induction is not true - Discussion by Mitko Gorgiev
Electromagnetism exercise - Question by dumb-at-eletromag
SPRING THEORY - Question by yukteshwar
physics experiment about magnet - Question by utaminium

1. Forums
2. » Electromagnetism