Is Jesus God?

@Setanta,

Not that it matters but I don't know either of those chaps. I'll have to ask my Chinese friend about the Yellow emperor but it's a safe bet that his influence is several rungs down in comparison.

popularity is a lousy reason to form a world view though. I don't think that has anything to do with JC's staying power.

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@Leadfoot,

You can't see the inherent contradiction in what you just wrote, can you?

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@Setanta,

I guess I don't. Are you saying I believe because it's popular?
IDK, but I find contradictions of interest. What am I missing?

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

. . . it's a safe bet that his influence is several rungs down in comparison.

popularity is a lousy reason to form a world view though. I don't think that has anything to do with JC's staying power.

First you dismiss the Yellow Emperor because you say his influence is several rungs down the ladder in comparison. Then you say that popularity is a lousy reason to form a world view. You don't see the contradiction there? Say . . . are you able to sit on a newspaper and dangle your legs?

Ask your Chinese friend whatever you like. Whether or not the Han remember the Yellow Emperor, for thousands of years they have considered themselves to be superior to all other ethnic groups. For thousands of years they have considered those who were not ethnic Han to be inferior to them. Much as co-called christians consider anyone who doesn't have their world view to be inferior. Man, thinking is hard! Buddhists could make much the same bullsh*t claims about Siddartha.

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@Setanta,

I was just responding to your train of thought after I posited that it was unlikely that an ordinary man could impact history the way that Jesus (or Paul if you prefer) has.

You then posited the Yellow Emperor as having similar impact and I said I don't see him having done so on the scale that JC had. You don't see threads on a2k discussing him for example. To be sure you didn't think I was making an 'ad populum' argument I added that it wasn't mere popularity that caused so many to be impacted so much or for so long by JC.

I just don't see the contradiction in my position here.

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@Leadfoot,

I'm sure you don't see them. I've noticed that about you.

By the way, this is an English language web site with a majority population of christians or those raised in a christian heritage. Do you understand the concept of selection bias?

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@Leadfoot,

You speak of myths not of men...it doesn't matter whether the myths were based on real people...what sells is the myth not the men. Myths are cultural social constructs used tou bind a collective around an ideal and a world vision...Christianity has chosen the absurd for cultural frame of reference...the ideal is to dread the natural world...atheists or not Westerners at large all inherited this world view...Western Moral is Judaic and Christian...it makes me laugh some naive scientists think they can shrug it off in a couple of decades with some online lessons...it speaks volumes on the state of disarray and chaos our suposedlly best minds dove into.

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@Setanta,

Quote:

Do you understand the concept of selection bias?

Yes, of course. That's why I pointed out the unimportance of my not having heard of the Yellow Emperor.

I'll ask my Chinese friend for her perspective and Google a bit but I will be very surprised if there is a Chinese forum where the Yellow Emperor is discussed with as much interest or passion as Jesus is here.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

You speak of myths not of men...it doesn't matter whether the myths were based on real people...what sells is the myth not the men. Myths are cultural social constructs used tou bind a collective around an ideal and a world vision...Christianity has chosen the absurd for cultural frame of reference...the ideal is to dread the natural world...atheists or not Westerners at large all inherited this world view...Western Moral is Judaic and Christian...it makes me laugh some naive scientists think they can shrug it off in a couple of decades with some online lessons...it speaks volumes on the state of disarray and chaos our supposedly best minds dove into.

In fact since Cantor, Russel, Godel, Turing, along with the whole group of Vienna with the Standard model for Quantum Physics the scientific West think tank has fallen for absurdism just as much as Christianity did...the narrative changes but the substance is the same...Einstein was the one exception to it. He never lost faith in Reason.

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@Leadfoot,

Men in religious delusion like Jesus , Mohamed , Buddha were able to make
this senseless living mankind crazy !

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@manden,

So who do you hold responsible for your 'situation'? I'm sure you've been called crazy before? I know I have...

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@Leadfoot,

Ain't that the Bible ???

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Manden claims not.

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I know what I say ! I have contact to our real creator , God and father of the
mankind - of course N O T God of any religion (that are manmade products)

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@Leadfoot,

You still don't get it. Almost 5000 years ago, the Yellow Emperor and Gilgamesh were as significant in their cultures as your boy Jeebus is now. Where will your boy be in 3000 years? You continue to conflate popularity with significance. Saying that popularity is meaningless, and then turning around to attempt to harp on the significance of Jesus, precisely on that basis, doesn't make for a convincing argument. Once again, you are making an argument for human exceptionalism, and failing.

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@Setanta,

Quote:

You continue to conflate popularity with significance.

Its not popularity I'm talking about, but impact. That applies to society (which I guess is where you assume 'popular') but mainly to individuals.

While I found some evidence for cultural pride, ancestral significance, etc. related to the Yellow Emperor, I don't see anything like the personal impact on individual lives either now or 2000 years after he died like JC had, not to mention the fact that JC's impact crosses all cultural boundaries. Then there is the factor of JC's rather humble start while YE was, you know, an Emperor.

We can't see into the future but in all of human history I can't find anyone else who had this kind of impact 2000+ years after their death. I mean here we are, STILL arguing passionately about him.

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@Leadfoot,

Who is responsible for our situation ?
Don't you really know that ?
The mankind since many milleniums ! ! !
What can you expect from a ( almost ) G O D L E S S mankind ? ? ?
To pray to manmade idols ( of the religions ) or deny the real creator cannot
bring better results ! ! !
BUT THIS MANKIND IS MORE THAN BLIND , IT IS ENOURMOUS
EGOISTIC AND MEGALOMANIAC , TOO !

ONLY OUR GOD ( AND FATHER ) OF THE MANKIND CAN HELP US !

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Hey Setanta, manden agrees with you that JC is a flash in the pan and that he (manden) is the real deal. Think we'll be talking about him in 2000 years?

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@Leadfoot,

You must not wait 2000 years . I am a little bit tool of the true God , the father
of the WHOLE mankind . I have in his way contact to him .
Jesus was a "good" man who could recognize a little bit rather correct , but he
was a normal human being like you and me .
Only the " crazy " men made him to more - like in other religions !

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Physically, Lord Jesus was not God Heavenly Father
But Spiritually, he was and is God Heavenly Father
The Spirit of God is Family love and compassion which creates and sustains all living things,
Lord Jesus has these attributes for his fellow human beings which will live on forever in those who revere him...

1 Reply

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