@neologist,
Thanks for the response. I too will rebut your comments:
Neo: So when was this lake of fire created and why were not Adam and Eve warned of it--I have already answered this question once before.
WT: How do you explain Revelation 21:8 if you say you don't believe in the Lake of Fire? God did warn Adam and Eve by telling them they would surely die!
Neo: What makes you say that? The only difference is I would place more emphasis on Jesus' death.
WT: Without the resurrection there is no salvation.
Neo: Here you are showing the folly of listening to what others say about Jehovah's Witnesses. The tribulation has not started.
WT: Ok --was misinformed.
Neo: 1914 is simply the date marking the end of the Gentile Times. We werer right about that, having noted the year in advance. And, since it was marked by the onset of the worst war in world history, we apparently got that part right.
WT: Apparently you are so wrong because Gentiles are still receiving the Holy Spirit as they early church did in the Book of Acts. How does WWI have anything to do with the Gentile times? This is unfounded. Joel states that in the last days God would pour out of His Spirit upon all flesh including the Gentiles. This is off in left field....not sure how you come up with the end of the Gentiles.
Neo: After nearly 2000 years of apostasy, it took a long time to root false doctrine completely out of our organization. We celebrated Christmas for the last time in 1926, I'm told. Would it have been correct to continue in a pagan practice under the false assumption that, since God had been willing to forgive our degrading practice in the past, he would just continue so we could feel better?
WT: I am not Catholic and therefore do not celebrate the Christ mas either. It is pagan in origin and I would agree 100%. However, my point was that you cannot make up doctrine as you go along--you must stick with the WORD of God!
Neo: No
WT: So you are not even attempting to go the New Jerusalem that John saw coming down out of heaven? You have been ripped off her my friend. Jesus said I go away to prepare a place for you that where I am there you may be also. This is not just for the 144,000 Jews. Look into that again. The scripture is full of proofs that You can attain heaven as well.
Neo: Not trying to earn, but simply following Matthew 28: 19,20. Faith without works is dead, after all. (James 2:26)
WT: I would agree; however, you don't even baptize so how are you fulfilling the Great Commission? You don't even understand the revelation of who Jesus is --how can you fulfill His commission? I know of assuredly that you could not even cast a devil out either if you had one staring you in the face. It is obvious that you don't have the Holy Spirit in your soul since you disregard Acts 2;38 totally and make up your own rules to salvation. Thus you have no power to heal the sick either. Jesus said that these signs shall follow them that believe. Mark 16--Mark's rendition of the Great Commission. I have prayed for the sick and they have been healed. I have cast out devils in the name of Jesus and they flee. This is the difference between your religion and my salvation.
Neo: Correct. Jews no longer have special standing anyway.
WT: That would be incorrect. They are God's chosen people and that will never change. We Gentiles have an opportunity for salvation only because the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah.
John 1:11-13King James Version (KJV)
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (JESUS' NAME)
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
You said that the Tribulation has not started yet--that is correct--for whom is the tribulation? It is called the 70th week of Daniel. It is for the Jews. This is when Jesus Himself will rescue His people from all of their enemies at the battle of Armageddon.
Neo: you mean the 12 tribes mentioned in Revelation, they are not equivalent to the 12 tribes of ancestral Israel. Compare the lists yourself when you have time. God's covenant with the nation of Israel ended with the baptism of Cornelius, at the end of the 70 weeks prophecied by Daniel.
WT: That would be incorrect. The 70th week of Daniel has not even begun as of yet. God's covenant to the House of Israel is still in full effect.
God has never canceled His promise to Abraham that he would father a vast multitude and that his physical, obedient seed will occupy Palestine.
St. Paul says clearly in Romans 8 that apostate Jews have broken God’s covenant. They can’t receive God’s covenant promises because they do not hold up their end of the bargain: giving God the faith of Abraham. Consider:
•Genesis 17:9, 18:19 and 26:5 say Abraham’s seed must keep the covenant through obedience.
•Genesis 17:14 says covenant breaking means being cut off.
•Genesis 17:19 says Jews only find covenant blessing by keeping the way of the Lord.
•Genesis 26:4 reinforces that the covenant exists because of obedience.
•Deuteronomy 1:37 details how Joshua’s obedience empowered Israel to inherit the covenant promise of occupying Canaan.
•Deuteronomy 7:12 is particularly definitive: “If you pay attention to these laws and are careful to follow them, then the LORD your God will keep his covenant of love with you, as he swore to your ancestors.”
•So is Deuteronomy 28:1: “If you fully obey the LORD your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations on earth (i.e. He will fulfill His covenant promises).”
Neo: God has never canceled His promise to Abraham that he would father a vast multitude and that his physical, obedient seed will occupy Palestine.
Yet St. Paul says clearly in Romans 8 that apostate Jews have broken God’s covenant. They can’t receive God’s covenant promises because they do not hold up their end of the bargain: giving God the faith of Abraham. Consider:
•Genesis 17:9, 18:19 and 26:5 say Abraham’s seed must keep the covenant through obedience.
•Genesis 17:14 says covenant breaking means being cut off.
•Genesis 17:19 says Jews only find covenant blessing by keeping the way of the Lord.
•Genesis 26:4 reinforces that the covenant exists because of obedience.
•Deuteronomy 1:37 details how Joshua’s obedience empowered Israel to inherit the covenant promise of occupying Canaan.
•Deuteronomy 7:12 is particularly definitive: “If you pay attention to these laws and are careful to follow them, then the LORD your God will keep his covenant of love with you, as he swore to your ancestors.”
•So is Deuteronomy 28:1: “If you fully obey the LORD your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations on earth (i.e. He will fulfill His covenant promises).”
Neo: Ok
WT: No argument
Neo: Without Jesus' sacrifice, we would be without hope; so I don't understand what you mean.
WT: You reject baptism in water and the infilling of the Holy Spirit speaking in other tongues and the Spirit of God gives the utterance: What other salvation do propose to have? With applying the blood of Jesus in baptism you have made the death of Jesus on the cross of none effect.