Is Jesus God?

@kiuku,

kiuku wrote:

there's no such thing as a mental disease therefore there is no such thing as a psychiatrist

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR5wvC80vmLZzZ1BfbBsByjZjgKCZMsYLLz5L090StxIrcHW4yG

0 Replies

@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24, responding to Enaj wrote:

I can appreciate your sincerity but I was a language major in college and according to the English I read in the Bible Jesus Christ is God Incarnate! See the infallible proof below.

Then, as a language major you should recall that if, in 1611, you told someone to go to hell, he would go to his root cellar, where he may have been helling potatoes. The similarity between hell and hole is no coincidence.

worldtraveler24 wrote:

Neo,
If you continue to call Him a demigod then you are a Binarian as opposed to a Trinarian. That puts you in the camp of polytheists! . . . .

Demigod is your word, Jesus is a god, just as a proper translation of John 1:1 will reveal.

Quote:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god

You may look at any interlinear translation to see the indefinite article applied to the word.
Here is a good description of the relation between Jesus and his father:

Quote:

For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.(Philippians 2: 9-11)[emphasis mine]

If Jesus were, in fact, God and God exalted him to a superior position, he would then be superior to God. The only way for this statement to be coherent is to understand that Jesus was in the inferior position and remained in the inferior position when elevated.
Or consider John 6:38;

Quote:

“I have come down from heaven to do, not my
own will, but the will of him who sent me.”

If Jesus is God, who sent him down from heaven. Is the one sending not greater than the one sent?

Most of the scriptures you cited, while certainly true, do not create an identity between Jesus and Jehovah, between Lord and LORD. BTW, do you know why LORD so often appears in capital letters?

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

If what you consider rational is one who doubts that the Creator exists, refutes everything contained within the Bible then I for one am not rational.

With all that said, Let me ask you rational minds a question...What about the Bible from a purely historical stand point...do you believe the accounts that are supported by additional historical data or do you rationalize history as well?

1 Reply

Worldtraveler wrote:

the accounts that are supported by additional historical data

Do you mind telling us about those?

0 Replies

@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

If what you consider rational is one who doubts that the Creator exists, refutes everything contained within the Bible then I for one am not rational.

Well...I do not think you are particularly rational, WT...but the fact remains that AT NO POINT have I ever said that a god does not exist.

If you are someone who is saying that a GOD MUST EXIST...yes, you are being extremely irrational.

I have no idea if there is a god...or if there are no gods...and I see no reason to suppose a god must exist...and I see no reason to suppose a god cannot exist.

Anyone asserting that a god MUST exist...or anyone asserting that it is impossible for a god to exist...

...is, in my opinion, being irrational.

Quote:

With all that said, Let me ask you rational minds a question...What about the Bible from a purely historical stand point...do you believe the accounts that are supported by additional historical data or do you rationalize history as well?

Ummm...poorly worded question, WT...but if you are saying that the Bible mentions that Rome existed...and that it was ruled by an emperor...and that Egypt existed...and that it was ruled by Pharaoh...and that Bethlehem and Jerusalem existed...

...yeah...it appears to me that it is correct about those "historical" things.

If you meant something else...why not actually say what you mean so it can be answered properly?

0 Replies

Quote:

WorldTraveller said: I was a language major in college and according to the English I read in the Bible Jesus Christ is God Incarnate!

If I were you I'd demand a refund of my college fees.. Wink

We know Jesus WASN'T God because he said so himself, so you'd better argue it out with him when you meet him!

Jesus said - "I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28 )
Jesus said -"Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
Jesus said - "Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
Jesus said - "I say nothing of my own accord, i only say what my father tells me to say" (John 12:49)
“Father, the hour has come....I am coming to you now" (John 17:13)
"Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." (Luke 23:46)
"I am going to my Father and your Father, my God and your God" (John 20:17)
God himself said - "This is my beloved Son" (Matt 17:5)

And of course Jesus regularly prayed to God, yet if he was God why would he pray to himself?

1 Reply

@neologist,

Thanks Neo for the reply!

In answer to your question, Yes, it refers to Jehovah!

I appreciate your "scholastic approach" but unfortunately in your sincere approach you make yourself sincerely blind to the reality of the whole plan of Salvation that Jehovah planned and fulfilled through His flesh Jesus Christ. Have you not studied the Tabernacle Plan? You obviously disregard the whole concept completely.

If I understand you correctly you are serving Jehovah and Jesus is of no account therefore you refute baptism in Jesus Name as the scripture teaches in Acts 2:38 as well as making Jesus a secondary inferior entity.

You obviously don't believe Jesus is the ONE true and living GOD despite the numerous scriptures that prove otherwise ( When you pray, in whose name do you pray? Jehovah or Jesus?). You have left the Holy Spirit as nothing more than a "good force" (kind of like Luke's fighting Darth in Cloud City) and you plan on living on this earth forever sitting under trees and partaking of the bounty of the land. If that is not a true depiction of what you believe please correct me because you have lost me a while back.

It appears to me that your studying of the scripture is strictly from a secular approach and there is no Spirit rightly dividing the word of truth in your studying at all. You obviously have never received the Holy Spirit into your soul so I am not sure how you even call your self a Christian...Paul said if you have not the Spirit of Christ you are none of His! Romans 8 ...But-oh, I guess you don't see yourself as a Christian since you refute Jesus's power and miracles on this earth. What do you call yourself?

A witness for Jehovah? Witnessing what? what are you witnessing? Please help me on this one.

0 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo,

Don't leave me at the alter....

Who was Jesus? Are you a believer that Jesus is a demigod as well as Neo believes? Help me--I am confused!

1 Reply

@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

Neo,
If Jesus is not GOD show me in scripture where He is not. I have just provided a good many proofs from the scripture that emphatically show that JESUS IS GOD in the flesh.

See above.

worldtraveler24 wrote:

Only one who wants to push a separate agenda would deny the proof in the scripture of the deity of Jesus the Christ! Face it your Psalms chapter 8 is totally misinterpreted.

No wonder you are mixed up. I cited Proverbs chapter 8 in which the master worker of Colossians 1: 15-18 is identified as Jesus

worldtraveler24 wrote:

The sacrifice that Jesus made is far greater than what the witnesses or any of the trinitarians say.

How? The only thing a human may begin to equate it with is the anguish Abraham must have felt when called upon to sacrifice Isaac. Oh, that's right. Abraham and Isaac were not the same individual.

worldtraveler24 wrote:

There was no one in human kind that was pure and could be the sacrifice for our sins--so Jehovah took on the form of man and became the sacrifice for us. You don't call that love? What do you call it? Why does Jesus mean God our Salvation?

Are you suggesting that Jehovah could not find one perfect angel would not have happily substituted for Adam? The entire Jewish law prefigures the sacrifice of a first born, a perfect one. Jesus happily took that role. BTW, all he needed to do was live a perfect life and die. It was Satan who demanded the torture and humiliation. (See Job 2:4)

worldtraveler24 wrote:

Why did Isaiah call the messiah Immanuel? God with us?? Why are these scriptures in the Bible if Jesus is not GOD--I in no wise see anywhere in the scripture where Jesus is a mere angel.

Jesus was created. Why are you unable to understand meaning of "God is with us"? Are not ambassadors or other representatives of government or certain corporations given similar titles. When I was in the newspaper business, I was often referred to as "the Herald guy" When Jesus walked the earth it certainly was a sign that God was with those who saw him.

worldtraveler24 wrote:

GOD JEHOVA robed Himself in flesh

Do you know what ipse dixit means? Please avoid it.

worldtraveler24 wrote:

and His flesh died--took all of the beatings and the cat-of-nine tails for your sins and mine. He was the ONLY one who could raise His own flesh from the grave

If he raised himself, then he had not died and the sacrifice had not taken place. .

worldtraveler24 wrote:

--He was GOD. Jesus said I am the resurrection and the Life. How can you argue with that?

Can't. Just doesn't advance your exegesis, though.

worldtraveler24 wrote:

The biggest issue you have is that you have been taught that Jesus is an angel and that He is not God.

What I may have been taught is irrelevant as is what you have been taught. What is relevant is the entire bible, after identifying the seed in Genesis 3:15, is a testament to Jesus' role as a created being, the first creation.

worldtraveler24 wrote:

If you truly believe the scripture then erase the false dogma you have been taught and read the Bible for what it says

Yes. Do that.

worldtraveler24 wrote:

The scripture emphatically states that Jesus is GOD in the flesh!

Your argument fails.

1 Reply

Quote:

Kiuku said: there's no such thing as a mental disease therefore there is no such thing as a psychiatrist

My dad worked in the boot and shoe industry but I think he fancied himself as a psychiatrist because he was always saying I was nutty.. Smile

As a kid I overheard him saying to my mam about me - "He's nutty! No don't laugh, I really do mean it, he wastes all his pocket money on silly plastic model aeroplanes then hangs 'em on string from his bedroom ceiling in full view of the street, I dread to think what the neighbours are saying about him. He's up there now building a bleddy great Superfortress, god only knows how much that cost him, when's he going to start saving his money instead?"

I got my own back though, I filled his radio with sand from a builders yard down the road and ROFL'd at his bewildered expression when he tried to tune in the Clay-Liston fight but all he got were electrical crackles and splutters. Smile

Then the sand began pouring out in torrents like an Indiana Jones temple and he freaked, "I don't believe it!" he yelled, "its full of bleddy sand, how the hell did that get in there?"
He's been dead now 30 years but I wonder what he'd say if he knew I still buy models, i've currently got my eye on a cool Tiger Moth down the model shop.. Smile

PS- anyway he was far nuttier than me, i once saw him peeing up the side of the neighbours house after dark because he didn't like them

0 Replies

@neologist,

Ok, Neo, you win.

I will not apologize for the scriptures anymore. You are free to believe as you will.

I just hope you can deal with the reality when all is made clear!

1 Reply

@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

Romeo,

Don't leave me at the alter....

You either have a problem with homonyms or you are suggesting you have some choice to make.

Perhaps reading the Bible would be a good choice.

BTW, you may see Romeo and me duke it out fiercely at times; but we pretty much agree that Jehovah and Jesus are Father and son. Where might you have read of Jesus referring to his father as anything other than father, or Jehovah referring to Jesus as anything other than son?

0 Replies

@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

Ok, Neo, you win.

I will not apologize for the scriptures anymore. You are free to believe as you will.

I just hope you can deal with the reality when all is made clear!

No problem.
Just don't expect me to refrain from exposing your apostasy whenever you post it.

1 Reply

347...and not one angel more!

http://christianfellowshipnetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Head-of-Pin-In.jpg

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Looking in the wrong place, Frank.
But, as an aside.
I wonder if, whenever that conundrum was proposed, anyone could have foreseen that one day folks would wonder how many strands of DNA could fit on the head of the pin.

0 Replies

@neologist,

Apostasy? I am on fire for God! You are the one who does not believe in the fire-not in your soul nor in hell!

1 Reply

@worldtraveler24,

Are you still answering me? Here is one for both you and Romeo:
If everlasting hell fire, or other torture, is in store for unrepentant sinners, who is in charge of the furnace?

0 Replies

Quote:

WorldTraveller asked me: Are you a believer that Jesus is a demigod..?

What does that word mean?
He certainly had a huge dollop of the holy spirit in him, and although that made him seem god-like, it doesn't mean he was God.. Smile

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
WorldTraveller asked me: Are you a believer that Jesus is a demigod..?

What does that word mean?
He certainly had a huge dollop of the holy spirit in him, and although that made him seem god-like, it doesn't mean he was God.

Demigod is your word, WT. Where did you get it from? Not in the bible as far as I can tell.

0 Replies

Quote:

Neologist asked me and Worldtraveller: If everlasting hell fire, or other torture, is in store for unrepentant sinners, who is in charge of the furnace?

How should I know mate? Just be patient and you and your JW chums might one day find out.. Wink

1 Reply

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know