MWal
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jul, 2014 09:08 am
@neologist,
Why did the serpent have influence? Unless he can return as a God this should be lost.
Romeo Fabulini
 
  0  
Reply Wed 16 Jul, 2014 09:58 am
Quote:
Frank Apisa said about Adam/Eve (again): Why can you not see that it is a creation fable done by people who did not think things through carefully enough...and that it makes no sense?

For a 'fable' you seem to be unhealthily obsessed and bogged down with it mate..Wink
Paul had to remind people not to get fixated with stuff-

"..stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work.." (1 Tim 1:3/4)
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jul, 2014 11:26 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Frank Apisa said about Adam/Eve (again): Why can you not see that it is a creation fable done by people who did not think things through carefully enough...and that it makes no sense?

For a 'fable' you seem to be unhealthily obsessed and bogged down with it mate..Wink
Paul had to remind people not to get fixated with stuff-

"..stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God’s work.." (1 Tim 1:3/4)



Not bogged down with it at all, Romeo. I'm just having fun watching the people who think it to be more than just a fable...do what they are doing with it.

If you cannot get a laugh out of this...you have no sense of humor.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jul, 2014 04:12 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
. . . Okay...but without knowing the difference...they would have no way to know that disobedience was wrong. . .
Why would they not obey God's direction out of love?

That's not to bring up the obvious why not obey out of fear of death.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jul, 2014 04:17 pm
@MWal,
MWal wrote:
Why did the serpent have influence? Unless he can return as a God this should be lost.
Not sure what you mean.
The "serpent's" influence was the lie.
It was his lie that moved Eve.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Jul, 2014 04:23 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
. . . Okay...but without knowing the difference...they would have no way to know that disobedience was wrong. . .
Why would they not obey God's direction out of love?


Because they did not know there was anything "right" about doing so...because they did not know there was anything "good" about doing so.

They did not know that it would be (as you seem to think) that it would be good or right to obey the god's directions out of love.

That god of yours DENIED them the knowledge of what was right and wrong...what was good and evil.

You really are having trouble seeing that.

Quote:
That's not to bring up the obvious why not obey out of fear of death.



Because they did not know there was anything "right" about doing so...because they did not know there was anything "good" about doing so.

That god of yours DENIED them the knowledge of what was right and wrong...what was good and evil.

You people who want this absurd story to mean something really are in a bind here...aren't you?

I still love you, Neo. But this ought to be filling in a part of the picture you have not taken into consideration previously. An important part.
worldtraveler24
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 08:31 am
@Frank Apisa,
ooooooo I can not take it anymore! God is so mean and evil...He is unbearable!

Frank, Let me ask you this...what are you going to do with this God that you hate so much?

You cannot even add one inch to your height yet you rail against God as if He were a subject of yours. Who are you again? A god? hum, it is by his mercy you even have the ability to write a single sentence or take another breath~!

I hope you wake up before it is too late and then you realize what a fool you have been to take on GOD!
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 09:33 am
@worldtraveler24,
worldtraveler24 wrote:

ooooooo I can not take it anymore! God is so mean and evil...He is unbearable!

Frank, Let me ask you this...what are you going to do with this God that you hate so much?


I don't hate the god any more than I hate Hannibal Lecter.

They are characters in books I consider mostly works of fiction.

Quote:
You cannot even add one inch to your height yet you rail against God as if He were a subject of yours.


I do not rail against GOD. I have some unkind, but appropriate words to say about that cartoon god described in the Bible.

What is your problem with that?


Quote:

Who are you again? A god? hum, it is by his mercy you even have the ability to write a single sentence or take another breath~!

I hope you wake up before it is too late and then you realize what a fool you have been to take on GOD!


I also hope you wake up...so we are one in that regard.
0 Replies
 
MWal
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 10:15 am
@neologist,
Well he moved her never the less. I believe the serpent once went with Heaven and he will again so its complete.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 10:45 am
@MWal,
Do you have evidence to support your exegeses?
MWal
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 11:03 am
@neologist,
Yeah he was created a perfect angel, if God wants to be perfect he needs to finds reason for his rebellion, come to terms with it and accept him home. He needs to be whole again. Every angel is created with a purpose, without a angel you have a hole in your reason.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 11:07 am
@Frank Apisa,
We start from different axioms, I can see that.
I start from the 'guess' that the creator is a God of love and that suggestions to the contrary must have a logical explanation. That took study and soul searching and continuous motivation on my part. All along, I have known the danger of 'wanting to believe', so I have had to constantly check my 'results'.

I have found that the ones who 'guess' as I do are fully in harmony with John 13: 34-35, having love among ourselves. Not that love does not exist as a matter of inborn conscience among all people. But, among JWs, the contrary lack of love is characteristically rare. All I need to do is participate with my brothers and sisters in any event to provide a touchstone, If you get a chance, visit one of our international conventions, just as an observer. Not only will you observe the love I just mentioned, you will also not observe a single scrap of trash left behind at the conclusion. There is truly no other group that meets the standard to the last.

In the world, violence against fellow believers is not considered unusual. Rather, 'collateral damage' is seen as somehow necessary. Show me another group and I'll study their message as thoroughly as I have the Bible.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 11:14 am
@MWal,
MWal wrote:
Yeah he was created a perfect angel, if God wants to be perfect he needs to finds reason for his rebellion, come to terms with it and accept him home. He needs to be whole again. Every angel is created with a purpose, without a angel you have a hole in your reason.
I assume you are speaking of the angel called Satan. What do you mean by "if God wants to be perfect"? If God created angels to be perfect, how could he not himself be perfect?

So let's consider the reasons for rebellion. If pride, and greed don't qualify for openers, name a few yourself.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 12:36 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
Sure, but there is a dynamic between various interests within morality and moral behavior that renders simplistic ideas of "good" and "bad" meaningless. Moral behavior is relative in regard to this dynamic.
Why should we assume that the conscience given to Adam and Eve was insufficient to negotiate any 'dynamics' likely to occur? Let us not take a simplistic view of the Creator's qualities.

Who's assuming anything here? I commented on your simplistic ideas about "good" and "bad" in regard to morality. You're merely rationalizing a mythological tale because of the conundrum it presents for you.
MWal
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 12:56 pm
@neologist,
If he's perfect, then his perfect angel can't die off in hell he has to be good. Just my prediction. How about knowledge free will and reason. Hahaha all fallen virtues doing the devils work. They are here, I can be passive, like super passive all safe and peaceful, but they are here and I know so do something, again all fallen virtues doing the devils work; they, here, know, do, and something. They all can do it.

Lucifers rebellion was about the undertaker who might as well be an angel except how is he passive?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 05:21 pm
@MWal,
Are you saying it would be impossible for God to destroy something he created?

BTW, there is no individual named Lucifer in the bible. Lucifer is a title, not a name.
MWal
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 07:19 pm
@neologist,
God is perfect, and his creations are perfect he has no need for destruction. Satan needs to be perfect againg. Lucifer is mention I believe in Jermiah.
MWal
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 07:19 pm
@neologist,
God is perfect, and his creations are perfect he has no need for destruction. Satan needs to be perfect againg. Lucifer is mentioned I believe in Jermiah.
0 Replies
 
Enaj
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 10:01 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Don't bother....you have the most closed mind of anyone I've ever known.
Always yelling "monster god, monster god.....on and on and on....you have never offered anything of substance here...but be a thorn in the side of Christians.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jul, 2014 11:01 pm
@MWal,
Satan became imperfect when he chose to sin.
0 Replies
 
 

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