Is Jesus God?

@Frank Apisa,

Let's play nicely!

I understand that Hell is a garbage dump and that it can also mean the grave: the reality is that Hell is both a garbage dump and a grave. Jesus made many references to hell in the NT. He also was notorious for using parables or stories with an underlying meaning. So...

Don't be so technical that you miss the obvious the in the scripture. It is human nature to refute the concept of hell. Keep in mind that if there were no hell as some of you believe, then there would be no need for salvation nor a Savior. If that is the case then Jesus was a liar and the Bible is nothing more than a book of stories.

After all why would we care if there were no recompense for our ungodly behavior?

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@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

Let's play nicely!

Okay...let's.

Quote:

I understand that Hell is a garbage dump and that it can also mean the grave: the reality is that Hell is both a garbage dump and a grave. Jesus made many references to hell in the NT. He also was notorious for using parables or stories with an underlying meaning. So...

I have no idea if there is a HEll or not...and I strongly suspect you do not either. You are making guesses about the existence (and nature) of Hell. You are entitled to those guesses...but why not be honest and call them guesses?

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Don't be so technical that you miss the obvious the in the scripture.

"Scripture" is a joke, WT. That is what you are missing. Anyone adopting a world view...or morality...based on it is using a joke for a compass.

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It is human nature to refute the concept of hell.

Not for me. I have never refuted it. I have no idea if there is a Hell...or what the nature of it is if it does exist.

I suspect you do not either...although your blind guesses about it are interesting. I thank you for sharing them. But you would do well to start calling your blind gusses...blind guesses.

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Keep in mind that if there were no hell as some of you believe, then there would be no need for salvation nor a Savior. If that is the case then Jesus was a liar and the Bible is nothing more than a book of stories.

I cannot imagine there being a "need" for a savior...or for "salvation." I think it to be one of the most bizarre religious concepts ever...and I am amazed that any intelligent being buys into it.

The best guess that can be made about the Bible...is that it is almost certainly nothing more than a book of stories.

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After all why would we care if there were no recompense for our ungodly behavior?

Some of us have to be rewarded to be good. Some of us are good for nothing.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank,

I love you man! I want to win you over to the pure love of Jesus Christ. I know that you are doubtful about many things even if the scripture is the inspired WORD of God. I understand; but why don't you quite assuming that everyone is guessing. I am not guessing about anything. I have proven the Bible to be true.

If you can just for a moment or two start to look at the prophesies that were made well before they happened. I am sure you would agree with history--at least I hope so...History itself agrees with the Bible.

In addition, take the Book of ACTS EXPERIENCE-- receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost! I have experienced this--this is real it is not just something in a book. You can experience this for yourself as well and then you will no longer be in doubt or be thinking that everyone else is as indecisive as you.

I feel that you are an honest hearted individual because you have asked me on several posts to be honest. I understand your position as many people in today's society don't have a moral compass and choose to embellish the truth somewhat. Sure, I understand that; however, not everyone is blindly speaking of a lot of nothing. I can assure you by the Holy Ghost that the Bible is the inspired WORD of God--but that means nothing to you until you experience it for yourself.

If you are truly a seeker of truth I seek GOD: Talk to Him and ask Him to respond in a way that you will know it is Him--beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I guarantee HE will answer you. Just watch and see.

I could tell you of miracles in my life that God has done that no one can tell me other wise. Perhaps I will share them with you one day. Things that you say I know that was supernatural--no earthly explanation for it.

Anyway--I know how you are but take this post as a kind loving post --not something to once again get the "Guessing" response.

1 Reply

@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

Frank,

I love you man! I want to win you over to the pure love of Jesus Christ. I know that you are doubtful about many things even if the scripture is the inspired WORD of God. I understand; but why don't you quite assuming that everyone is guessing. I am not guessing about anything. I have proven the Bible to be true.

That is absurd...and you should be adult and honest enough to acknowledge it.

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If you can just for a moment or two start to look at the prophesies that were made well before they happened. I am sure you would agree with history--at least I hope so...History itself agrees with the Bible.

If every prophesy were correct...and most prophesies are ambiguous jokes...that still would not prove the Bible to be anything more than a book of stories.

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In addition, take the Book of ACTS EXPERIENCE-- receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost! I have experienced this--this is real it is not just something in a book. You can experience this for yourself as well and then you will no longer be in doubt or be thinking that everyone else is as indecisive as you.

Yes...and you have god living in your heart.

You do not recognize your own delusions, WT.

Work on that.

Quote:

I feel that you are an honest hearted individual because you have asked me on several posts to be honest. I understand your position as many people in today's society don't have a moral compass and choose to embellish the truth somewhat. Sure, I understand that; however, not everyone is blindly speaking of a lot of nothing. I can assure you by the Holy Ghost that the Bible is the inspired WORD of God--but that means nothing to you until you experience it for yourself.

You cannot assure me of any such thing. At best, you can share your guesses about the REALITY of existence.

I thank you for doing that, but your guesses are clouded by superstition and fear. I'd prefer not to bother with them...other than to acknowledge that you are sharing them.

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If you are truly a seeker of truth I seek GOD: Talk to Him and ask Him to respond in a way that you will know it is Him--beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Yes. If you did the same thing with Zeus, he would "answer" you also. Also Napoleon would.

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I guarantee HE will answer you. Just watch and see.

Yes, if I did what you are doing, I know your god would answer me. There are wards filled with people hearing these kinds of responses.

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I could tell you of miracles in my life that God has done that no one can tell me other wise. Perhaps I will share them with you one day. Things that you say I know that was supernatural--no earthly explanation for it.

There are Earthly explanations...but not for someone who wants as much as you for this god to exist.

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Anyway--I know how you are but take this post as a kind loving post --not something to once again get the "Guessing" response.

All you are doing is guessing, WT. You may feel love and kindness...but you are guessing about the REALITY nonetheless.

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Quote:

WorldTraveller said: Hell is a garbage dump and that it can also mean the grave: the reality is that Hell is both a garbage dump and a grave. Jesus made many references to hell in the NT.

Right..

The only people who say there's no hell are those who are afraid of ending up there.. Smile

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@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

. . . Keep in mind that if there were no hell as some of you believe, then there would be no need for salvation nor a Savior. If that is the case then Jesus was a liar and the Bible is nothing more than a book of stories.

After all why would we care if there were no recompense for our ungodly behavior?

You are saying we need salvation from the cosequence of sin, right?

OK, let's fill in the blanks. . ..

"The wages of sin are __________"

Have you never considered what consequence God warned Adam and Eve? Why there was no mention of a celestial oven?

What does John 3:16 say, again?

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Quote:

Neologist said: I question your reading ability, Romeo. There is to be a resurrection, of course.
For the righteous. And the unrighteous, so they will have their chance.

Yes we know the good AND the bad will be resurrected-
Jesus said:- "All in the graves shall come out, to resurrection or damnation" (John 5:28/29)

But you JW's seem to think the unrighteous are then going to get a "second chance" to become Christians!
Haha, that's just more Satanic propaganda, as if Satan is saying "Relax and just carry on being nasty on earth, you'll get a second chance to be good people after you're dead, you can trust me, would I lie?"

1 Reply

@neologist,

neologist wrote:

"The wages of sin are __________"

Death, but the hours are good, and the perks are brilliant.

1 Reply

@neologist,

Neo,

I thank you for your response.

I know you are a well studied student of the scripture; however, it does not even make logical sense to think that death in the natural is the only wage of sin because we are all going to die one day. Romans is not referring to the physical death it is referring to the spiritual death that will happen in the Lake of Fire. Hell is a temporary holding place for the damned.

Let's just say that your take on hell is correct and that the physical death is the wage of sin. Why does the scripture say that Death and Hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire? Ultimately death finds its way to the Lake of Fire.

God told Adam and Even that in the day they eat there of they shall surly die. If what you are saying that the physical death was all there was to it then why did God even try to reestablish His relationship with man via the cross? Was he only trying to give us eternal life on the earth?

The scripture teaches clearly the elements will melt with fervent heat and the heaven are going to pass away with a great noise. The earth will cease to exist--it will pass away. How would one experience eternal life on the earth??

This is not Biblical nor logical.

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@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

. . . . Let's just say that your take on hell is correct and that the physical death is the wage of sin. Why does the scripture say that Death and Hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire? Ultimately death finds its way to the Lake of Fire.

God told Adam and Even that in the day they eat there of they shall surly die. If what you are saying that the physical death was all there was to it then why did God even try to reestablish His relationship with man via the cross? Was he only trying to give us eternal life on the earth?

Yes. (Although some will go to heaven.)

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With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes,g and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away" (Revelation 21:3,4)

worldtraveler24 wrote:

The scripture teaches clearly the elements will melt with fervent heat and the heaven are going to pass away with a great noise. The earth will cease to exist--it will pass away. How would one experience eternal life on the earth??

This is not Biblical nor logical.

Do you really suppose heaven will pass away? Or is that passage to be taken symbolically?

Quote:

For this is what Jehovah says, The Creator of the heavens, the true God, The One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmly established it,
Who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited. . . .. (Isaiah 45:18)

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@izzythepush,

neologist wrote:

"The wages of sin are __________"

izzythepush wrote:

Death, but the hours are good, and the perks are brilliant.

Reminds me of a quip I heard about airplane travel. Something to the effect of
"The flight seems pleasant. It's the sudden stops I fear."

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@worldtraveler24,

Here's another fill in the blank.
"The meek shall inherit the ________"

That's from Psalm 37:11, BTW

1 Reply

@neologist,

Bro,

I understand your sincerity. Let me just say this. Once you die you will no longer be living in your body. If you are accounted worthy by the LORD Himself then you will gain a glorified body and you will rule and reign with Jesus on the earth for 1,000 years. You will not be in bodily form, but even if you were, it is only going to last 1,000 years. After that then comes eternity.

The earth will pass away...so much for inheriting the earth. The meek shall inherit the earth while they are here on the earth...not when they leave this earth.

The heavens which will pass away refer to the other celestial bodies within our galaxy not the NEW JERUSALEM that John saw coming down out of "heaven" or the heavens.

To believe that only 144,000 are going to heave with the LORD is not correct. This refers to the 12,000 from each tribe of Israel: This reference does not ever relate to the gentiles. I never could understand how the witnesses picked that line up. Are you all a Jewish organization?

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

. .... But you JW's seem to think the unrighteous are then going to get a "second chance"

So, you are saying the billions of folks who have lived through the ages, never having learned of the true God, will be consigned to an eternity of torture?

Explain how your god is a god of love.

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Quote:

WorldTraveller said to Neo: The scripture teaches clearly the elements will melt with fervent heat and the heaven are going to pass away with a great noise. The earth will cease to exist--it will pass away. How would one experience eternal life on the earth??
This is not Biblical nor logical.

Right!
And when the crook on the cross next to Jesus said "Jesus remember me", Jesus replied "Today you'll be with me in Paradise", so obviously he didn't mean Earth.. Smile

This is a pretty good artwork depicting the purely spiritual realm of heaven/paradise, the Earth would be boring by comparison-

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/heaven-art_zpsa94c1776.jpg~original

1 Reply

@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

To believe that only 144,000 are going to heave with the LORD is not correct. This refers to the 12,000 from each tribe of Israel: This reference does not ever relate to the gentiles. I never could understand how the witnesses picked that line up. Are you all a Jewish organization?

Read the names of the 12 tribes in Revelation and compare to the 12 tribes of the OT. (Don't match, do they?) The book of Revelation is written in symbols (Revelation 1:1). Why do you assume the 12 tribes are not also symbolic? Consider the meaning of Romans 2:29.

Quote:

29 But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit and not by a written code. . .

Or, do you suppose the nation of Israel continues to have a special relationship with God?

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

....And when the crook on the cross next to Jesus said "Jesus remember me", Jesus replied "Today you'll be with me in Paradise", so obviously he didn't mean Earth..(smarmy emoticon removed)

Playing fast and easy with the scriptures again, eh? Get on your own naughty step!
The Greek writers used no commas. Luke 23:43 would read Truly I tell you today you will be with me in Paradise.”
Obviously, where you put the comma is of great importance. If before the word 'today', you would be saying that Jesus ascended to heaven that very day. Can you show how that would be true?

If you place the comma after the word 'today', Jesus would simply be assuring the thief of his resurrection.

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Quote:

Romeo said to Neo: But you JW's seem to think the unrighteous are then going to get a "second chance"
Neologist said: So, you are saying the billions of folks who have lived through the ages, never having learned of the true God, will be consigned to an eternity of torture?
Explain how your god is a god of love.

If a caveman starved to death because he gave the last morsel of food to his woman and child because he "sensed" it was the right thing to do even though he'd never heard of God and Jesus, would God send him to hell and forget him? Nah.. Smile

Only selfish rotters go to hell because they don't want righteousness and God, so he sure as heck doesn't want them, they had their one and only chance, he's not some wishy-washy social worker.. Smile

"dogs, pigs. " (Matt 7:6)
"weeds" (Matt 13:38 )
"brute beasts," (2 Peter 2:12)
"heathens" (Jer 10:2)
"fools" (Psa 94:8 )
"liars" (1 John 2:22/23)
"defiled" (Titus 1:15)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/fury.gif

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Quote:

Neologist said to me: Playing fast and easy with the scriptures again, eh? Get on your own naughty step!..
If you place the comma after the word 'today', Jesus would simply be assuring the thief of his resurrection.

The only Bible version i've seen that messes with the comma is your own JW New World Translation to try to support the JW's cockamamie ideas.. Smile

Here's the verse in the King James where Jesus clearly tells the crook that both of them will be in Paradise that very day-
"And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43)

And all these other Bible versions also make it clear that 'today' means 'today'.. Smile

-
http://legacy.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Luke%2023:43

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

The only Bible version i've seen that messes with the comma is your own JW New World Translation to try to support the JW's cockamamie ideas..

All bible translations "mess" with the comma, since it does not appear in the original Greek text. Where it is placed becomes a matter of belief. If you believe Jesus ascended to heaven on the same day he was executed, let me know how that could be true.

Otherwise, get back on your naughty step

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