Is Jesus God?

@worldtraveler24,

I posted this to you....worldtraveler24,

Do you really believe that Jesus is his own God and Father? The following verses say otherwise...

Ephesians 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Romans 15:6
so that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,

................................
And you answered it with a reply about John 1, without answering or responding to those verses that were in my message. (above)

.............................................................

I followed with this.

I would like to know why you did not address the verses that I gave you? Is it because you can not reconcile them with John 1 ? Therefore, it is easier to ignore them?

..................................

You have not answered the above question.....I should like to see you reconcile the verses I gave, instead of ignoring them, with John 1. How do you harmonize those verse with John 1?

I'll get to the other stuff in your reply in a separate post.

0 Replies

@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24

Quote:

No one is trying to insult anyone. I apologize to you for offending you. I am not implying that you have no understanding of the scriptures. I am simply stating that if you or anyone else for that matter wants to see Jesus as GOD you must understand His deity and His humanity. That is what I meant to say.

You made the assumption that those here do not understand Jesus, his humanity, and his divinity. You gave the implication what those here do not understand who Jesus is. That is a no no.

Quote:

I am not always good with words but I have a full understanding of who Jesus is. I am simply saying that if you can look past the humanity and see the deity you would understand what the terminology is declaring.

Again you made the assumption that those here do not understand, and do not understand the terminology, and so the implication is that it needs to be explained to us by you who does know Jesus, unlike those here. Another no no.

Quote:

Additionally, I am not trying to ignore anything you have presented. Present your scriptures again and I will respond. Quite frankly, I don't know what you believe because you are right I don't know you. And besides keep in mind that I am not here to bash anyone or humiliate anyone. I thought we all understood that we are all seeking truth and a sensible discussion of who Jesus is. Am I correct?

In a way you do ignore what is asked by answering with going to something else as you did when I presented those verses, and not responding to them, but instead you go to John 1, and don't explain how that is an answer to my verses.

Quote:

What I cannot understand is how you would think that I am insulting you. I really from my heart apologize. I am sure you have an extensive understanding and I am thankful for that. I just feel that we differ substantially on who Jesus is. That does not make you or me ignorant and unlearned. It makes me feel bad inside when I feel that I have offended you--that was not my intention. Forgive me.

It is insulting when someone tell you what you believe as there is the implication that they do not know what they believe and therefore need you to tell them. It implies that we are too stupid to know what we believe. This is the ultimate insult.

Our understanding of Jesus may be more similar then you think. Again you made an assumption.

And you are forgiven.....don't do it again Smile

(joke)

Quote:

As far as the scripture is concerned about Jesus I just wish I could convey to you the separation of the flesh and the Spirit and the indivisibility of the Eternal Spirit.

Why? Do you assume that we do not understand? Maybe we do. Why not just share what you think instead of thinking we need to be informed as if we are not as enlighten as you are?

Your last paragraph I will answer in another post..

Enaj

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
Your reading would imply more than one God.
No. One God and one divinity.
The God and a god.

Then why not use the word "divinity," or "divine," or even "godlike" as some other translators have used to avoid your conundrum? "A god" does not mean "divinity," your tourtured exegesis notwithstanding.

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@worldtraveler24,

Quote:

I really have a few honest questions for you: Do you believe in One GOD? or a Triune Godhead? Do you believe that when you get to heaven you will see three Gods, Father , Son, and Holy Ghost? DO you believe that Jesus is the only begotten son of the Eternal Spirit or is he a demi god, or is He just a human who was gracious enough to accept the role of sacrifice for our sins? I am interested in what you believe because you are correct I have no idea at this point. thanks for your response.

I believe in one God. Yahweh.
I do not believe in the Trinity, or Oneness.
If I were to get to heaven I believe I will see One God Yahweh. And his heavenly host.
I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah.
I do not believe in demi-gods as that is polytheism.
I do believe that he sacrificed for our sins.
I believe that the holy spirit is the active power of God, and not a person.
I believe Hell is the grave as hel means to cover over.
I do not believe in a fiery hell of torment that sinners are said to go to.
I believe the dead are dead until their resurrection.
I am undecided on Jesus pre-human existence.
I believe that the Word was the words and utterings of God (check out Genesis 1 ) until Jesus began his ministry and brought us the Word....that is the gospel, the Good News, while he was here on earth. That is when he became the Word,when he gained that title.
I believe that we are meant to be resurrected to an everlasting life here on a renewed earth.

I've said enough now....keep in mind that any one or more of these beliefs could change, as I'm always open to learning more and realizing when I might be wrong, and willing to change if shown that I am.

Enaj

2 Replies

@Enaj,

Enaj wrote:

Quote:
I really have a few honest questions for you: Do you believe in One GOD? or a Triune Godhead? Do you believe that when you get to heaven you will see three Gods, Father , Son, and Holy Ghost? DO you believe that Jesus is the only begotten son of the Eternal Spirit or is he a demi god, or is He just a human who was gracious enough to accept the role of sacrifice for our sins? I am interested in what you believe because you are correct I have no idea at this point. thanks for your response.

I believe in one God. Yahweh.
I do not believe in the Trinity, or Oneness.
If I were to get to heaven I believe I will see One God Yahweh. And his heavenly host.
I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah.
I do not believe in demi-gods as that is polytheism.
I do believe that he sacrificed for our sins.
I believe that the holy spirit is the active power of God, and not a person.
I believe Hell is the grave as hel means to cover over.
I do not believe in a fiery hell of torment that sinners are said to go to.
I believe the dead are dead until their resurrection.
I am undecided on Jesus pre-human existence.
I believe that the Word was the words and utterings of God (check out Genesis 1 ) until Jesus began his ministry and brought us the Word....that is the gospel, the Good News, while he was here on earth. That is when he became the Word,when he gained that title.
I believe that we are meant to be resurrected to an everlasting life here on a renewed earth.

I've said enough now....keep in mind that any one or more of these beliefs could change, as I'm always open to learning more and realizing when I might be wrong, and willing to change if shown that I am.

Enaj

You folk all use that word "believe" in ways I find disconcerting.

Let me take the first use of the word in your list above:

Quote:

I believe in one God. Yahweh.

It certainly does not sound as though you are saying, "I know there is a God. Yahweh."...otherwise you would have said that (and probably been challenged to furnish some sort of proof.)

It sounds to me as though you are saying, "It is my guess that there is a GOD and that the GOD is Yahweh, the god described in the Bible."

Is that what you are actually saying?

If there is a difference between guessing all that...and "believing" it? Can you explain the difference?

1 Reply

@Enaj,

Enaj wrote:

I believe in one God. Yahweh.

How did you come to know that God is one ... without knowing who God might be, like for example a Board of Intelligent Life Forms that are concerned to save us from out own greed and stupidity ... and inability to understand the world in which we are living?

Enaj wrote:

If I were to get to heaven ...

You don't have a definition of Heaven, in the first place - how are you going to get there then?

Enaj wrote:

I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah.

The question is: what does the 'Son of God' mean ... and as far as the Messiah is concerned - who is going to save whom - how, when, why ... and from what?

Enaj wrote:

I believe Hell is the grave as hel means to cover over.

The Grave is not the worst case scenario ... much more worse than that could be to be buried alive in one's own ignorance or to be borne without any chances for successful competition because of the location.

Enaj wrote:

I believe the dead are dead until their resurrection.

There is no resurrection in the literal meaning of the word. It is simply symbolics.

Enaj wrote:

I believe that we are meant to be resurrected to an everlasting life here on a renewed earth.

... and the only problem is what are 'resurrected', 'everlasting' & 'renewed' supposed to mean.

Enaj wrote:

I've said enough now....

If you are curious to know 'you are not alone' - you are not the only one that has beliefs. Even the most inveterate atheists belief in various things - they believe that they are the smart ones .. and that they have competitive advantage if they take the side to deny everything and to acknowledge some most incredible & unbelievable things ... like for example the creation of the universe through evolution and the evolution of the species 'on auto pilot'.

1 Reply

Being that Worldtraveler asked this....

"I am interested in what you believe because you are correct I have no idea at this point. thanks for your response. "

I thought that I'd answer so he would understand my beliefs better since he asked, and had been making assumptions. Now he does not have to, he'll know now when he comes on. That was my only purpose.

I will not be" fine tuning" the beliefs I stated here or giving detailed explanations for those who fail to see that that was and is my only purpose....to help worldtraveler understand where I am coming from.

Enaj

0 Replies

Quote:

Enaj wrote: I believe that we are meant to be resurrected to an everlasting life here on a renewed earth.

I don't buy that myself. For a start Jesus said we become "as angels" in heaven.
Anyway if we were resurrected back to earth how old would we be? For example if I met my dear old gran would she be as she looked when she was a young woman? And how would I look to her, like a young man or an old codger?

2 Replies

Is there anyone who can claim and explain how God could have changed his mind about the promise He made to Adam and Eve in Genesis, just because they sinned?

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank, when I said I believe in one God, that is what I mean, just as I said.
If I had wanted to say that I know there is a God, I would have said that. But I didn't say that. If I had, then I should try to prove it if asked to. But I didn't say that. Hope you follow... Smile

1 Reply

@Enaj,

Enaj wrote:

Frank, when I said I believe in one God, that is what I mean, just as I said.
If I had wanted to say that I know there is a God, I would have said that. But I didn't say that. If I had, then I should try to prove it if asked to. But I didn't say that. Hope you follow...

So you are saying it is a guess?

1 Reply

@Herald,

Herald, read my message starting out like this...

"Being that Worldtraveler asked this...."

That also is my answer to your post.

And notice that I said..."If" I were to get to heaven..."
It was an answer to Worldtraveler's question of how many did I believe I'd see when I get to heaven, the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit? " If" I were to get to heaven I would see one God. But I don't believe that we go to heaven, but wait for the resurrection to a life on earth.

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

If the bible is silent on how we and our grans would look like, then I don't think that it is something that we need to worry over. It may be something that might interest us but not something that we necessarily need to know...

0 Replies

@neologist,

Quote:

Is there anyone who can claim and explain how God could have changed his mind about the promise He made to Adam and Eve in Genesis, just because they sinned?

Neologist, If you are referring to the promise of life forever on earth without death if they had not sinned....I don't think his plans changed. That that plan he had before Adam and Eve sinned, is still his plan for his repented believers. Smile

0 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Enaj wrote:

I believe that we are meant to be resurrected to an everlasting life here on a renewed earth.

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

I don't buy that myself. For a start Jesus said we become "as angels" in heaven.
Anyway if we were resurrected back to earth how old would we be? For example if I met my dear old gran would she be as she looked when she was a young woman? And how would I look to her, like a young man or an old codger?

Quote:

(Isaiah 35:5, 6) . . . At that time the eyes of the blind ones will be opened, and the very ears of the deaf ones will be unstopped. 6 At that time the lame one will climb up just as a stag does, and the tongue of the speechless one will cry out in gladness.. . .

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

So you are saying it is a guess?

No, I said believe.
I think that you need to review the meaning of the word believe....

be·lieve
verb

: to accept or regard (something) as true

: to accept the truth of what is said by (someone)

: to have (a specified opinion)
be·lievedbe·liev·ing
Full Definition of BELIEVE
intransitive verb
1
a : to have a firm religious faith
b : to accept something as true, genuine, or real <ideals we believe in> <believes in ghosts>
2
: to have a firm conviction as to the goodness, efficacy, or ability of something <believe in exercise>
3
: to hold an opinion : think <I believe so>
transitive verb
1
a : to consider to be true or honest <believe the reports> <you wouldn't believe how long it took>
b : to accept the word or evidence of <I believe you> <couldn't believe my ears>
2
: to hold as an opinion : suppose <I believe it will rain soon

1 Reply

@Enaj,

Enaj wrote:

Quote:
So you are saying it is a guess?

No, I said believe.
I think that you need to review the meaning of the word believe....

be·lieve
verb

: to accept or regard (something) as true

: to accept the truth of what is said by (someone)

: to have (a specified opinion)
be·lievedbe·liev·ing
Full Definition of BELIEVE
intransitive verb
1
a : to have a firm religious faith
b : to accept something as true, genuine, or real <ideals we believe in> <believes in ghosts>
2
: to have a firm conviction as to the goodness, efficacy, or ability of something <believe in exercise>
3
: to hold an opinion : think <I believe so>
transitive verb
1
a : to consider to be true or honest <believe the reports> <you wouldn't believe how long it took>
b : to accept the word or evidence of <I believe you> <couldn't believe my ears>
2
: to hold as an opinion : suppose <I believe it will rain soon

That is what I meant.

You "accept it as true." You consider it to be true. You guess it to be true.

"Believing"is simply accepting something as fact...when one does not know it to be a fact or not.

It is a guess.

In the case of whether or not there is a GOD...it is a blind guess...as it is with the nature of that GOD; the nature of what pleases or offends that GOD; whether or not there is an existence after death; the nature of any existence; and all the other things you mentioned in your blind guesses.

There is nothing wrong with making blind guesses and then calling them "beliefs", Enaj...I am not derogating it. I am merely calling it to your attention as part of this discussion.

I wonder why people who make those kinds of blind guesses are bothered by actually calling them blind guesses?

0 Replies

Quote:

Frank Apisa said: In the case of whether or not there is a GOD...it is a blind guess...as it is with the nature of that GOD; the nature of what pleases or offends that GOD; whether or not there is an existence after death; the nature of any existence; and all the other things you mentioned in your blind guesses.

Jesus explained everything to us, so there's no "blind guessing" involved at all.. Smile

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Frank Apisa said: In the case of whether or not there is a GOD...it is a blind guess...as it is with the nature of that GOD; the nature of what pleases or offends that GOD; whether or not there is an existence after death; the nature of any existence; and all the other things you mentioned in your blind guesses.

Jesus explained everything to us, so there's no "blind guessing" involved at all..

Accepting that "Jesus explained everything to us"...

...is itself a blind guess.

So your, "so there's no 'blind guessing' involved at all"...

...is illogical...at best.

0 Replies

Quote:

Romeo said "Jesus explained everything to us"
Frank Apisa said: Accepting that "Jesus explained everything to us"...is itself a blind guess.
So your, "so there's no 'blind guessing' involved at all"...is illogical...at best.

Not sure I know what you're getting at mate..
Jesus clearly explained that the purpose of human life is to 'lock onto' or 'mindmeld' with him
"The work God requires is to believe in the one he has sent" (John 6:28 )
"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you" (John 14:20)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/jesus-meld_zps86861c7d.jpg~original

so that when our bodies die, our souls automatically fly to him through the 'Jesus Stargate', he can't be much clearer than that.. Smile

"..small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it" (Matt 7:13)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/stargateJesus.gif~original

1 Reply

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