Is Jesus God?

@Romeo Fabulini,

Thanks Romeo for the post! I see you are an honest hearted person! Stay that way. I don't mean to argue with anyone--I just have a different revelation on who Jesus is.

0 Replies

@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

Then how could Jesus be perfect sacrifice except He be that GOD in flesh? Where did Jesus' spirit come from if He were not God?

Jesus drew his perfection from Jehovah, not the other way around. Jesus was not GOD, though he did have God's holy spirit.

You are possibly the first person I have met who takes your position regarding Jesus' divinity. It seems convoluted. Jesus existed in heaven for billions of years before taking a slave's form and being born as a human. That is why I referred you to Proverbs chapter 8. Can you see the correspondence between that account and 1 Corinthians 1: 15-17?

1 Reply

@neologist,

Neologist,

Thanks for the response and the question. My response is to you is :I don't see how anyone could have another position on who Jesus is. If He is not God then why was he the perfect sacrifice? You say that he drew his perfection from Jehovah--I agree--because He was Jehovah in the flesh.

I think a lot of our misunderstandings are due to terminology. When I say Father, I mean GOD, Jehovah, the great I AM the Eternal Spirit. Would you not agree with me that all of these are proper titles for the One who has existed from eternity past and who will always exist?

Keep in mind that all of these titles of God are not his name. JHVH or the Tetragrammaton was His name. The Jews never uttered His name as they felt they would die if they were to utter the Name of GOD. You already agreed in a previous post that Jesus means that JHVH has become our salvation. How much plainer could that be?

Now when we talk about The Son, we are talking about Jesus in His totality; son of man as flesh and son of God as Spirit; however, we are talking about the man who walked on the earth, who died and rose again. Flesh born of Mary and the Spirit born of God. Jesus was the only begotten SON of GOD. Begotten means the only flesh procreated by the Father or GOD. If what you say about Jesus's having the Spirit of God as we can have as the Holy Spirit but He was not GOD then why was HE the ONLY begotten son of GOD? If Jesus were as we are He would then be one of many of the sons of God.

According to Colossians 2:9 ALL of the fullness of the Godhead dwelled in Christ bodily. In other words all of GOD'S fullness was evident in the face of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ the man was the only body that the Eternal Spirit procreated for Himself in which HE dwelled. Jesus was the ultimate expression of the invisible GOD that is why they called HIM JESUS---JHVH has become our Salvation! Jesus was the WORD that John 1 says HE was. There are not two Spirits of GOD--GOD IS INDIVISBLE.

The Apostle Paul said that same Spirit that raised Christ (or the body) from the dead will dwell in your mortal bodies and quicken us on the day of the catching away of the church. This is the HOLY SPIRIT. You really think there are three spirits of God in heaven? If that were true then we would all believe in a polytheistic view of GOD. HE IS ONE-INDIVISIBLE. The Holy Spirit is GOD's dwelling in you, that is if you have received the Holy Spirit according to the scripture in ACTS 2;38. There is ONE GOD who Has revealed Himself in three manifestations or offices: Father in creation, Son in redemption and the Holy Ghost in resurrection or regeneration. Death burial and resurrection. This is the plan of salvation Repent, or die out to your sin and the old life. Be baptized in water in JESUS's name since He is the one who died for you and specifically told Niocodemus that he had to be born of both water and the Spirit. And Lastly receive the gift of the Holy Ghost for the regeneration of your soul. It is all in the scripture--read it with a desire to know who Jesus is and the correct plan of salvation. He will revel Himself to you if you seek Him with your whole heart.

3 Replies

@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

Neologist,

Thanks for the response and the question. My response is to you is :I don't see how anyone could have another position on who Jesus is. If He is not God then why was he the perfect sacrifice? You say that he drew his perfection from Jehovah--I agree--because He was Jehovah in the flesh.

I think a lot of our misunderstandings are due to terminology. When I say Father, I mean GOD, Jehovah, the great I AM the Eternal Spirit. Would you not agree with me that all of these are proper titles for the One who has existed from eternity past and who will always exist?

Keep in mind that all of these titles of God are not his name. JHVH or the Tetragrammaton was His name. The Jews never uttered His name as they felt they would die if they were to utter the Name of GOD. You already agreed in a previous post that Jesus means that JHVH has become our salvation. How much plainer could that be?

Now when we talk about The Son, we are talking about Jesus in His totality; son of man as flesh and son of God as Spirit; however, we are talking about the man who walked on the earth, who died and rose again. Flesh born of Mary and the Spirit born of God. Jesus was the only begotten SON of GOD. Begotten means the only flesh procreated by the Father or GOD. If what you say about Jesus's having the Spirit of God as we can have as the Holy Spirit but He was not GOD then why was HE the ONLY begotten son of GOD? If Jesus were as we are He would then be one of many of the sons of God.

According to Colossians 2:9 ALL of the fullness of the Godhead dwelled in Christ bodily. In other words all of GOD'S fullness was evident in the face of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ the man was the only body that the Eternal Spirit procreated for Himself in which HE dwelled. Jesus was the ultimate expression of the invisible GOD that is why they called HIM JESUS---JHVH has become our Salvation! Jesus was the WORD that John 1 says HE was. There are not two Spirits of GOD--GOD IS INDIVISBLE.

The Apostle Paul said that same Spirit that raised Christ (or the body) from the dead will dwell in your mortal bodies and quicken us on the day of the catching away of the church. This is the HOLY SPIRIT. You really think there are three spirits of God in heaven? If that were true then we would all believe in a polytheistic view of GOD. HE IS ONE-INDIVISIBLE. The Holy Spirit is GOD's dwelling in you, that is if you have received the Holy Spirit according to the scripture in ACTS 2;38. There is ONE GOD who Has revealed Himself in three manifestations or offices: Father in creation, Son in redemption and the Holy Ghost in resurrection or regeneration. Death burial and resurrection. This is the plan of salvation Repent, or die out to your sin and the old life. Be baptized in water in JESUS's name since He is the one who died for you and specifically told Niocodemus that he had to be born of both water and the Spirit. And Lastly receive the gift of the Holy Ghost for the regeneration of your soul. It is all in the scripture--read it with a desire to know who Jesus is and the correct plan of salvation. He will revel Himself to you if you seek Him with your whole heart.

But then again...so will Zeus!

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

The FOOL hath said in his heart there is no GOD.

1 Reply

@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

The FOOL hath said in his heart there is no GOD.

I am not a fool...and I have never suggested in any way that there is no GOD.

But if you "look for Zeus with your whole heart"...he will reveal himself to you.

2 Replies

@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

If He is not God then why was he the perfect sacrifice?

Adam was perfect. Do you consider him to have been God, also? The perfect sacrifice had to be a perfect man. So, Jesus took the form of a man, lived a perfect life of obedience to the Jewish law, and died as a substitute for Adam. If you wonder why he had to suffer additional pain and humiliation, consider Satan's allegations in Job 2:4

Quote:

  “Skin in behalf of skin, and everything that a man has he will give in behalf of his soul."

If Job was forced to suffer, surely Satan would require similar from God's son.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

But if you "look for Zeus with your whole heart"...he will reveal himself to you.

My nickname was Zeus at one time. Now I just look like my nickname might have been Zeus at one time.

0 Replies

@worldtraveler24,

Do you really believe that Jesus is his own God and Father? The following verses say otherwise...

Ephesians 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

1 Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Romans 15:6
so that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

I apologize Frank- I felt that your comment was quite disrespectful. I just cannot get over the sarcasm in this thread. We are supposed to be discussing the Eternal God--to me this is no joking matter. Again, I apologize If I offended you. Please consider how your comments come across before you post them. Thanks!

1 Reply

Quote:

Frank Apisa said: I am not a fool...and I have never suggested in any way that there is no GOD.
But if you "look for Zeus with your whole heart"...he will reveal himself to you.

Why should anybody want to look for Zeus?

1 Reply

@Enaj,

Enaj,

Yes, Jesus is the creator of the world so by default He is GOD. Consider John 1:3.
I understand your way of thinking but you are not looking at the ramifications of how you interpret the Father and the Son. You are not separating flesh and spirit. I still want to know if Mary is a god as well? Because if The Father were Jesus's Father and Mary were his mother she must have been a god as well. Where is she from the foundation of the world as you state that Jesus was? You cannot see that the Father is Spirit and the son is flesh?

John 1: 1
The first verse emphatically states that the WORD was with GOD and the WORD was GOD. How do you dispute that? Jesus is the WORD. Then in the 14th verse it says: "And the Word was made flesh (WHO WAS FLESH??? JESUS) and dwelt among us (WHO DWELLED ON THE EARTH?? JESUS) and we beheld His glory as of the only begotten of the Father [the Eternal Spirit] full of grace and truth." Jesus's body was the only body that the "Father " begot --why isn't Adam included in there if Jesus were just another man....? You get confused on the father and son terminology. You think in the human realm when you have to understand that God is a Spirit and NO man hath seen Him at any time--Check out Verse 18 in John 1. But Jesus hath declared Him. Who? the Body of Jesus hath declared the Eternal Spirit (Which cannot be seen so He had to take on the form of man in order to be seen and that is who Jesus is.

Why don't you read John the first chapter. Then ask yourself these questions you are asking me.

Why is it that John states:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

You must understand that Jesus was fully God and Fully Man in order to understand the scriptures.

2 Replies

@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

I apologize Frank- I felt that your comment was quite disrespectful.

Absolutely no need for an apology at all, WT, but I'd love to hear what you consider "disrespectful" about it. I see nothing disrespectful in what I said.

Quote:

I just cannot get over the sarcasm in this thread.

We are discussing REALITY here...and some blind guesses about the nature of that REALITY.

Considering it is almost certain that nobody contributing knows anything about it and can only make blind guess...sarcasm is almost inevitable.

Quote:

We are supposed to be discussing the Eternal God--to me this is no joking matter.

Actually, it is a joking matter, even though you cannot see the joke. But if you stick around...you may be able to come to better understanding about it.

Quote:

Again, I apologize If I offended you.

You did NOT offend me in any way...and I once again say that no apology is necessary.

Quote:

Please consider how your comments come across before you post them. Thanks!

I consider my comments very carefully before posting them.

0 Replies

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Frank Apisa said: I am not a fool...and I have never suggested in any way that there is no GOD.
But if you "look for Zeus with your whole heart"...he will reveal himself to you.

Why should anybody want to look for Zeus?

For the same reason anyone would want to look for any gods.

0 Replies

Quote:

Romeo wondered: Why should anybody want to look for Zeus?
Frank Apisa replied: For the same reason anyone would want to look for any gods.

Nobody went out looking for Jesus, HE came to US.. Smile

He said: "I know where I came from and where I am going, but you have no idea where I come from or where I am going....you are of this world, I am not of this world...I'll tell you things hidden since the creation of the world" (John 8:14/ 8:23, Matt 13:35)
Hey Spock I bet you'd listen to Jesus, you're all ears.. Smile

"Congratulations Romeo, that was almost funny"

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/spock-laugh_zps7db7ca5f.jpg~original

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Quote:

WorldTraveller chided Frank with: We are supposed to be discussing the Eternal God--to me this is no joking matter.
Frank swung back with: Actually, it is a joking matter, even though you cannot see the joke.

Only fake "gods" are funny, look at this unholy shower.. Smile

-

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/SetA_zps229aaa4b.gif~original

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/horus-c_zps4a9f0f11.jpg~original

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/God_Hanuman.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Shiva_zps114c24f0.jpg~original

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/ganeshA_zps75e3daad.gif~original

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sekhmet.gif

PS- speaking of Sekhmet the egyptian "goddess", a witch in a chatroom once said she was invoking Sekhmet to come and deal with me. I put the kettle on but she never turned up, hey guys don't you just hate it when you get stood up by goddesses?
Anyway looking at her pic I wouldn't have known whether to tickle her chin or offer her a plate of Kattomeat

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
WorldTraveller chided Frank with: We are supposed to be discussing the Eternal God--to me this is no joking matter.
Frank swung back with: Actually, it is a joking matter, even though you cannot see the joke.

Only fake "gods" are funny, look at this unholy shower..-

And people like you want to be the arbiter of what is and is not a fake god!S

What a joke that is in itself.

0 Replies

@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

. . . Jesus is the creator of the world so by default He is GOD.

No. He is divine He is the master worker of proverbs 8:30, the first of all creation.

worldtraveler24 wrote:

I still want to know if Mary is a god as well? Because if The Father were Jesus's [sic] Father and Mary were his mother she must have been a god as well.

BZZZZT!

worldtraveler24 wrote:

John 1: 1
The first verse emphatically states that the WORD was with GOD and the WORD was GOD. How do you dispute that?

Try reading other translations or scanning the Greek text. You will find the proof that Jesus is not referred to by the same expression as his father. In fact, he is a god or divine

worldtraveler24 wrote:

You must understand that Jesus was fully God and Fully Man in order to understand the scriptures.

On the contrary; the assertion that Jesus was God allows room for Satan's allegation in Job 2:4. It insinuates that God could not find any of his creatures willing to disprove Satan's most heinous allegations from Genesis onward.

That is why Jehovah allowed his firstborn to take a slave,s form and become a perfect human and be subject to the worst Satan could bring against him.

The entire Jewish law was put in place so the nation of Israel could identify the Messiah. Why do you think the Jews were required to offer perfect animals in sacrifice? Why do you think so much emphasis was placed in the OT on the first born? I could go on, but first I'd like to see if I've been beating a dead horse.

2 Replies

Quote:

Frank Apisa grouchily said to me: And people like you want to be the arbiter of what is and is not a fake god!S
What a joke that is in itself.

Jesus did things to demonstrate God's awesome power working through him that even your Zeus would be hard pressed to do.. Smile

"Even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father" ( John 10:38)

The 37 MIRACLES OF JESUS
Bringing little girl back to life
Bringing widows son back to life
Bringing Lazarus back to life
Stilling the storm
Feeding 4000
Walking on sea
Feeding 5000
Coin in fishes mouth
Withering fig tree
Big catch of fish
Water into wine
Another big fish catch
Healing leper
Healing Centurions servant
Healing Peters mother-in-law
Healing sick at evening
Healing paralysed man
Healing haemorraging woman
Healing two blind men
Healing mans withered hand
Healing Canaanite womans daughter
Healing boy with seizures
Healing blind man
Healing deaf and dumb man
Healing another blind man
Healing crippled woman
Healing man with dropsy
Healing 10 lepers
Restoring a cut-off ear
Healing noblemans sons fever
Healing crippled man at Bethesda
Healing a born-blind man
Casting out demons into pigs
Curing a mute lunatic
Casting out dirty spirit
Curing a possessed blind-dumb man
Appeared to his followers after his death

http://www.bcbsr.com/survey/jmrcls.html

1 Reply

@neologist,

I sincerely appreciate your response and dedication. I just simply cannot agree with what you are saying. It seems that your only defense is about Satan's allegations in Job. This has nothing to do with Jesus as the Perfect sacrifice. Are you implying that Jesus was among the Sons of God ? I am sorry but I don't follow your proof nor your thought process. There were no creatures worthy that is why God created Himself a body--Read Hebrews 10 5: -7 .

2 Replies

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