I am a Buddhist and if anyone wants to question my beliefs then they are welcome to do so...

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

. .. I believe that free speech is the cornerstone of any free society. You can't have free speech without proselytism.

Right. Pretty hard to have a religion thread without it. If you're here, it must be for a reason

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What is the purpose of the prayer wheel?

http://www.twogypsies.com/assets/images/db_images/db_prayer-wheel-9f1.jpg

For that matter, what is the difference between prayer beads and the rosary?

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@neologist,

When the Buddha first taught it was referred to as 'Turning the wheel of the dharma' literally, 'Giving the teachings of the Buddha'.

A prayer wheel is a physical representation of that, i.e. on the wheel is a Buddhist teaching phrase and when you turn it... you turn the wheel of the Buddha's dharma... literally. Many buddhist have the wish to become Buddhas and they believe this will only arise if the correct causes and conditions are present... one of them must be the wish to 'turn the wheel of dharma' so by doing so they help to create one condition for the achievement of Buddhahood (Mahayana Enlightenment).

The prayer beads are similar and are called a 'Mala' which literally means 'garland'. They also help to recite a collection of syllables that are meant to keep the mind free from elaboration and discursive thoughts... it is hard to have them when the hands and mind are occupied in this way... so an aid to meditation.

There are other additional meanings for both but they are to do with an individual's practice of a teaching... but the description I've given above is still correct. They may have cultural meanings as well and also simple folk may misunderstand the meaning and link it to old belief systems or myths.

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@igm,

igm wrote:

When the Buddha first taught it was referred to as 'Turning the wheel of the dharma' literally, 'Giving the teachings of the Buddha'.

A prayer wheel is a physical representation of that, i.e. on the wheel is a Buddhist teaching phrase and when you turn it... you turn the wheel of the Buddha's dharma... literally. Many buddhist have the wish to become Buddhas and they believe this will only arise if the correct causes and conditions are present... one of them must be the wish to 'turn the wheel of dharma' so by doing so they help to create one condition for the achievement of Buddhahood (Mahayana Enlightenment).

The prayer beads are similar and are called a 'Mala' which literally means 'garland'. They also help to recite a collection of syllables that are meant to keep the mind free from elaboration and discursive thoughts... it is hard to have them when the hands and mind are occupied in this way... so an aid to meditation.

There are other additional meanings for both but they are to do with an individual's practice of a teaching... but the description I've given above is still correct. They may have cultural meanings as well and also simple folk may misunderstand the meaning and link it to old belief systems or myths.

If Jesus saw a post “explaining” and rationalizing “the sign of the cross”; genuflecting before the Eucharist; rosary beads; and novenae…he probably would shake his head and say, “Obviously I didn’t get my message through to them.”

If the Buddha were to read a post “explaining” and rationalizing beads and the wheel…he probably would shake his head and say, , “Obviously I didn’t get my message through to them.”

I wouldn’t be surprised if both would also aver:

Hey, if it makes them feel more comfortable…so what. And maybe they will accidentally stumble onto what I was trying to teach.

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@Frank Apisa,

I answered neo's questions, nothing more nothing less. My reply to him was to show there is a reason behind doing those things he was questioning, which can appear superstitious but isn't... but even that seems to upset you!?

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@igm,

igm wrote:

I answered neo's questions, nothing more nothing less. My reply to him was to show there is a reason behind doing those things he was questioning, which can appear superstitious but isn't... but even that seems to upset you!?

Not upset at all. In fact, I have acknowledged your position and wished you well in just about every post.

Why does my disagreeing with you upset you so?

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@Frank Apisa,

...

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@igm,

igm wrote:

...

I'll raise you one:

....

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@Frank Apisa,

If you want some light relief...

I've got some advice for you Frank...

Never get a job recycling shoes... it's sole destroying.

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@igm,

igm wrote:

If you want some light relief...

I've got some advice for you Frank...

Never get a job recycling shoes... it's sole destroying.

"Light relief" is always welcome.

Thanks for that, igm.

In that spirit (and sticking with the footwear theme), did you hear about the teacher who was helping one of her kindergarten students put his boots on?

He asked for help and she could see why. With her pulling and him pushing, the boots still didn't want to go on. When the second boot was on, she had worked up a sweat. She almost whimpered when the little boy said, "Teacher, they're on the wrong feet."

She looked, and sure enough, they were. It wasn't any easier pulling the boots off than it was putting them on. She managed to keep her cool as together they worked to get the boots back on - this time on the right feet. .

He then announced, "These aren't my boots." .

She bit her tongue rather than get right in his face and scream, "Why didn't you say so?" like she wanted to do. Once again she struggled to help him pull the ill-fitting boots off. .

He then said, "They're my brother's boots. My Mom made me wear them."

She didn't know if she should laugh or cry. She than mustered up the grace to wrestle the boots onto his feet again.

She said, "Now, where are your mittens?"

He said, "I stuffed them in the toes of my boots..."

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@Frank Apisa,

Wow, you have a much better grasp on this than I thought. Putting words into the mouth of both Jesus and Buddha.

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@IRFRANK,

IRFRANK wrote:

Wow, you have a much better grasp on this than I thought.

I do...and I am glad you noticed.

Quote:

Putting words into the mouth of both Jesus and Buddha.

Well...I actually didn't. The word "probably" was pominent. And when you think about it...I probably was not far off in my speculation.

Do you think I was...and if so, why?

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@Frank Apisa,

You have a rather combative style of posting Frank. I don't think soldiers ever considered that they were 'sharing' bullets with the 'other side'.

That's not to say in this sort of forum a combative approach is bad, but that it can't really be considered sharing.

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@vikorr,

vikorr wrote:

You have a rather combative style of posting Frank. I don't think soldiers ever considered that they were 'sharing' bullets with the 'other side'.

That's not to say in this sort of forum a combative approach is bad, but that it can't really be considered sharing.

I don't feel I do...particularly when compared with many who post here. Not sure how to convince you I am not being combative. I try to be friendly; I don't call people names; I try to stay on topic; I often tell jokes to ease tense situations.

Any suggestions you can make?

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@Frank Apisa,

Hi Frank,

I do notice that you do all those things (telling jokes, not calling people names etc), which are wonderful qualities.

And I notice that you are quite passionate about your thoughts and views, which are enjoyable qualities...but they can be problematic too. My view is that you are looking for a way to win, where igm isn't looking at this as a contest. In other words, it's not that you don't have valid points, but rather, the way in which they are presented.

As specific observations (which may be inaccurate, as I'm going from memory) :
- I don't see you asking many (if any) clarifying questions
- I haven't seen much recognition of igm's views in your posts?

In the absence of any recognition, interest (shown in questions), or agreement, and with you arguing differing perspectives - there's perhaps only combat left.

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@vikorr,

vikorr wrote:

Hi Frank,

I do notice that you do all those things (telling jokes, not calling people names etc), which are wonderful qualities.

And I notice that you are quite passionate about your thoughts and views, which are enjoyable qualities...but they can be problematic too. My view is that you are looking for a way to win, where igm isn't looking at this as a contest. In other words, it's not that you don't have valid points, but rather, the way in which they are presented.

As specific observations (which may be inaccurate, as I'm going from memory) :
- I don't see you asking many (if any) clarifying questions
- I haven't seen much recognition of igm's views in your posts?

In the absence of any recognition, interest (shown in questions), or agreement, and with you arguing differing perspectives - there's perhaps only combat left.

I'm not certain what you mean about wanting "to win", Vikorr, but I certainly think that my perspective on these kinds of questions is worthwhile...so I do not sell it short. I freely acknowledge that I press my points...to the point where some people consider me a stuck needle on a phonograph. (I do not think that to be the case...I feel I am just determined.)

In any case, there were a half-dozen responses to this thread before I came on...and I think I was the first to actually ask a question about igm's "beliefs." (See that on page 1...where igm was actually bemoaning the fact that questions were not being asked...and attacks of a sort were being made.)

I followed up on igm's response to my question...both with "recognition" and acknolwedgement of igm's views...and with clarification questions. I refer you to

http://able2know.org/topic/220485-2#post-5415732

which does those things.

I acknowledge your concerns about my "style", but I think you are judging me incorrectly.

1 Reply

@igm,

igm wrote:

Would you like to ask me a question? I'm easy, if not have a good evening.

Your previous posts... I'm not sure what to make of. Obviously my problem not yours.

I redirect you to my post: # 5,417,308 and await your reasoned response (without much likelihood of success it would appear).

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@Frank Apisa,

Well, there are two points I'd like to make. I think your statement trivialized the previous comments. Also, putting words into into both Jesus's and Buddha's mouth is exactly what you did.

I would agree Jesus might not be impressed with the trappings of the Catholic Church. He didn't appreciate the wealth of the temples at his time. I don't know what Buddha might have thought. A prayer wheel is used to help one practice Buddhist teachings.

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Side note from the main conversation I wasn't even in. Religion seems so silly. Even though that is my opinion on it, I have no right, nor the desire to force others to take an atheistic view. Although I'm not sure the relationship is mutual....

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@Frank Apisa,

Hi Frank,

I understand you press your points.

I also understand that other people posted before you.

And thank you for referring me to that post. I can see the good intention in there, and I can also see a sceptical frame of reference (but going down that path will digress from the following paragraph).

Perhaps the easiest way to 'display' what I am talking about is to look at the reactions & results to different posting styles in this thread.

Or from another perspective - see if you can pick people's reason for posting, and see if they come anywhere near achieving the goal/reason.

...but the reasoning for the results (reactions to different posting styles) is an entire discussion in itself.

Best wishes

1 Reply

I am a Buddhist and if anyone wants to question my beliefs then they are welcome to do so...

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