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I am a Buddhist and if anyone wants to question my beliefs then they are welcome to do so...

Forums: Religion, Buddhism, Philosophy, Buddha, Buddhist Superiority
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 29 Nov, 2013 01:49 pm
See, Jeff...it is all about COURAGE.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Fri 29 Nov, 2013 01:55 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Laughing
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 29 Nov, 2013 02:09 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Laughing


Thought you would enjoy that, Fil!
0 Replies
 
Uncle jeff
 
  1  
Tue 3 Dec, 2013 10:57 pm
@igm,
Ok from what I could gather the basic concept of the religion is that we are all part of the Universe, and so you learn to live a lifestyle that is appeasing to rest of the Universe. Do I have the basics correct?
igm
 
  1  
Wed 4 Dec, 2013 04:40 am
@Uncle jeff,
Uncle jeff wrote:

Ok from what I could gather the basic concept of the religion is that we are all part of the Universe, and so you learn to live a lifestyle that is appeasing to rest of the Universe. Do I have the basics correct?

Not really UJ... but the main thing to remember is the Buddha said, 'I teach only one thing, that all is suffering and how to put an end to it.

The Universe is just a concept, a label that those who study the Universe e.g. scientists can refer to. What the meaning of that label is, isn't important in Buddhist teachings.
Uncle jeff
 
  1  
Wed 4 Dec, 2013 07:16 am
@igm,
Wow. So like for example when you watch your child being born instead of looking at it as an occasion full of joy, you look at it as "my child is being born ooh how I suffer!" ?
igm
 
  1  
Wed 4 Dec, 2013 07:46 am
@Uncle jeff,
Uncle jeff wrote:

Wow. So like for example when you watch your child being born instead of looking at it as an occasion full of joy, you look at it as "my child is being born ooh how I suffer!" ?

I can understand why you would think that but no that is not what I meant. As joyful moments are temporary that is seen as a form of suffering because they won't last and are difficult and sometimes impossible to attain. So, even the joys and pleasures of this life are temporary they only last as long as the causes and conditions for their appearances are present when these change then happiness is lost and in a sense joy is tainted because we know it will not last... it is therefore a form of suffering.

There is a state which is free from suffering and is unconditioned happiness i.e. it does not depend on causes and conditions and is not impermanent... that is what Buddhism has to offer those that practice it correctly.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 4 Dec, 2013 07:58 am
@igm,
igm wrote:

Uncle jeff wrote:

Wow. So like for example when you watch your child being born instead of looking at it as an occasion full of joy, you look at it as "my child is being born ooh how I suffer!" ?

I can understand why you would think that but no that is not what I meant. As joyful moments are temporary that is seen as a form of suffering because they won't last and are difficult and sometimes impossible to attain. So, even the joys and pleasures of this life are temporary they only last as long as the causes and conditions for their appearances are present when these change then happiness is lost and in a sense joy is tainted because we know it will not last... it is therefore a form of suffering.

There is a state which is free from suffering and is unconditioned happiness i.e. it does not depend on causes and conditions and is not impermanent... that is what Buddhism has to offer those that practice it correctly.


Sounds like religious "belief" to me.

In any case, Christians offer that same state of freedom from suffering and unconditional happiness. They call it Heaven. It is even easier to attain that the "freedom from suffering and unconditional happiness" that Buddhists can attain if they "practice" Buddhism correctly.

All you have to do is die. You live a few years here on Earth...and then spend all of eternity free from suffering and experiencing unconditional happiness.

So, igm, you apparently practice Buddhism correctly. Are you completely free from suffering and experiencing unconditional happiness?
igm
 
  1  
Wed 4 Dec, 2013 08:02 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

So, igm, you apparently practice Buddhism correctly. Are you completely free from suffering and experiencing unconditional happiness?

Whether I answer yes or no, it won't satisfy you Frank... I have a polite suggestion... take a guess!
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 4 Dec, 2013 08:11 am
@igm,
igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

So, igm, you apparently practice Buddhism correctly. Are you completely free from suffering and experiencing unconditional happiness?

Whether I answer yes or no it won't satisfy you Frank... I have a polite suggestion... guess!


Okay...let me guess both ways and comment on it.

If you say you are completely free from suffering and you are experiencing unconditional happiness...

...I would acknowledge that there is no way I can know if you are telling the truth or not...but you do know. If you are completely free from suffering and experiencing unconditional happiness...I congratulate you. If you are just pretending to be completely free from suffering and experiencing unconditional happiness...I pity your need to make such a deception.

If you say you are not completely free from suffering and you are not totally experiencing unconditional happiness...

...I would politely and respectfully suggest to you that in that case, you may be completely wrong about what can be obtained by "properly practicing Buddhism"...and are just guessing.

So which is it, igm?

I've guessed both ways and actually responded to whichever you might say the case is with you...so you can share which it is.
igm
 
  1  
Wed 4 Dec, 2013 08:17 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Okay...let me guess both ways and comment on it.

Okay...
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 4 Dec, 2013 08:22 am
@igm,
igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Okay...let me guess both ways and comment on it.

Okay...


C'mon, igm...you can tell us.

There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that you are just guessing that this stuff "works."

And if you are not guessing...and actually are free of suffering and totally in happiness...

...well, it could not possibly matter if any of us doubt you.

Right?
Uncle jeff
 
  1  
Wed 4 Dec, 2013 08:55 am
@igm,
Well I know most people in the religion are not like this but if you say the concept of the religion is "'I teach only one thing, that all is suffering and how to put an end to it" Being that the ultimate goal of the religion is to stop reincarnating back into World. Is it at all possible that a group of radicals from the religion could say "Aha I got the answer! If we are able to provoke a nuclear war than there will be no living things left on Earth to be reincarnated into!!" ?
Again I am just talking about the radicals not everyone as a whole. Is it a possibility?
igm
 
  1  
Wed 4 Dec, 2013 10:30 am
@Uncle jeff,
In Buddhism, birth, life and death are not an illusion but they are 'like' an illusion, the same is true of reincarnation. People who misunderstand the Buddha's teachings are like anyone... capable of all kinds of nonsense and even dangerous activities... in essence they believe they are one thing when infact they are another. Dress them up in the uniform of a religion and then others mistake them for being one thing, when they (in their minds) are another.
0 Replies
 
igm
 
  1  
Wed 4 Dec, 2013 10:43 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

C'mon, igm...you can tell us.

True.
Frank Apisa wrote:

There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that you are just guessing that this stuff "works."

True.
Frank Apisa wrote:

And if you are not guessing...and actually are free of suffering and totally in happiness...
...well, it could not possibly matter if any of us doubt you.
Right?

True.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 4 Dec, 2013 02:28 pm
@igm,
igm wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

C'mon, igm...you can tell us.

True.
Frank Apisa wrote:

There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that you are just guessing that this stuff "works."

True.
Frank Apisa wrote:

And if you are not guessing...and actually are free of suffering and totally in happiness...
...well, it could not possibly matter if any of us doubt you.
Right?

True.


Hey, igm. Excellent dodge...and I mean that sincerely. Not every dodge is a negative...and I do not mean to cast this as one of the negative ones.

It is interesting, however, that the question you dodged was: Have you actually achieved this freedom from suffering and totality of happiness? One would think you would feel validated if you have...and that if you hadn't, you would simply acknowledge that you haven't.

But essentially, your "true" response to my comments shows an unusual area of agreement...and moves us along more than might seem at first blush.

We'll may well revisit these responses depending upon the kinds of responses you give to less threatening questions.
igm
 
  1  
Wed 4 Dec, 2013 04:12 pm
@Frank Apisa,
However, I respond won't stop you from having to guess if it's true or false, if I'm deluded or not deluded, if I'm telling the truth or a lie. Sometimes the only way to know the taste of a cake is to eat it.... actually delete the word 'sometimes'.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 4 Dec, 2013 04:21 pm
@igm,
igm wrote:

However, I respond won't stop you from having to guess if it's true or false, if I'm deluded or not deluded, if I'm telling the truth or a lie. Sometimes the only way to know the taste of a cake is to eat it.... actually delete the word 'sometimes'.


Well...you wouldn't lie to me, would you?

Why not tell me which it is...why not tell all of us?

I am much more interested in your answer...than in whether or not I can tell if it is true or false...because I can almost never tell that kind of thing in this kind of situation.

So...which is it?
igm
 
  1  
Wed 4 Dec, 2013 04:53 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You'll have to guess Frank... that's my final word to you, on the subject. I'm quite happy for you to guess either way because it makes no difference... the Buddha explained how to remove the root cause of suffering... until someone understands what that is and attempts to remove it and succeeds in removing it, then no one can possibly know whether it is possible or impossible... what I say and how I answer your questions won't change that.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 4 Dec, 2013 05:00 pm
@igm,
igm wrote:

You'll have to guess Frank... that's my final word to you, on the subject. I'm quite happy for you to guess either way because it makes no difference... the Buddha explained how to remove the root cause of suffering... until someone understands what that is and attempts to remove it and succeeds in removing it, then no one can possibly know whether it is possible or impossible... what I say and how I answer your questions won't change that.


Okay...then I guess that you are not completely free from suffering...and you are not experiencing totally unconditional happiness.

So, as I said earlier, I politely and respectfully suggest to you that you may be completely wrong about what can be obtained by "properly practicing Buddhism." You are, as I suspected, just guessing.

Thanks for discussing this with me, igm.
 

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