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I am a Buddhist and if anyone wants to question my beliefs then they are welcome to do so...

Forums: Religion, Buddhism, Philosophy, Buddha, Buddhist
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Tue 3 Sep, 2013 07:11 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
I want him to convince me that he is doing something other than guessing about the true nature of REALITY.
Am I right in saying the naïve realist is really just guessing?

'Cept he usually figures on guessing right.


I am not a naive realist...not by a long shot.

If I am talking about REALITY...and the true nature of REALITY...I am undoubtedly guessing.

Anything else I can help you with?
neologist
 
  1  
Wed 4 Sep, 2013 01:18 am
@Frank Apisa,
Oh, OK.
0 Replies
 
igm
 
  1  
Thu 5 Sep, 2013 05:47 am

The true nature of reality cannot be expressed in thoughts, words or deeds... that is not a guess. That place is not somewhere else and is free from suffering... it is unconditioned happiness.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 5 Sep, 2013 08:48 am
@igm,
igm wrote:


The true nature of reality cannot be expressed in thoughts, words or deeds... that is not a guess.


"The true nature of REALITY MAY be exactly what the naive realists think it to be...and may be easily expressed in thoughts, words, and deeds.

You were right...your comment is not a guess...it is simply an absurd one.

Quote:

That place is not somewhere else and is free from suffering... it is unconditioned happiness.


Really. And you KNOW this how?
JLNobody
 
  2  
Thu 5 Sep, 2013 02:28 pm
@Frank Apisa,
He "knows" it as first hand or concrete experience, just as I do. Too bad, Frank, that you deprive yourself of it because of your abstract commitment to theoretical "ignorance".
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 5 Sep, 2013 02:57 pm
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

He "knows" it as first hand or concrete experience, just as I do. Too bad, Frank, that you deprive yourself of it because of your abstract commitment to theoretical "ignorance".


Too bad, JL...that you deprive yourself of the truth...and of the strength to acknowledge that you do not know the things you truly do not know.

But that is a liability with which you must live...until you finally throw it away.


vikorr
 
  1  
Thu 5 Sep, 2013 02:57 pm
@igm,
Quote:
The true nature of reality cannot be expressed in thoughts, words or deeds... that is not a guess.
I rather agree with the intent of this.

Quote:
That place is not somewhere else and is free from suffering... it is unconditioned happiness.
I rather disagree with this. I'm sure that, as prey are being pursued, possibly to their death, that what they are experiencing is not happiness.

If you buy into evolution, and even if you don't - we are genetically constituted to feel anger / fear / sadness / repulsion / happiness etc. To say that just one of these emotions is 'the reality' would ignore a great deal.

But...I have no doubt that people can learn to live a happy life, to let their worries go at the same time as solving problems etc.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 5 Sep, 2013 02:59 pm
@igm,
igm wrote:
... it is unconditioned happiness.



There's a Sufi parable about a man who meets Khidir, the Green Man. Khidir takes him somewhere where the people are all miserable, populated by those who were materialistic. He then takes him to another land where everyone is happy. Something's still not right, and Khidir informs him that this is the place where people desired happiness, and it's just as false as the other realm.

0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Thu 5 Sep, 2013 03:22 pm
@igm,
As a matter of interest, if someone decides to follow Buddhism, what do they feel it offers more than say Christianity?
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  3  
Thu 5 Sep, 2013 05:32 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank, when I was young I used to believe pretty much as you do now . But you claim not to see what I see after many of effort. I hope you do someday--for your sake. Now this arrogance I have just expressed is very unpleasant for me so don't expect me to expand on it. Just think about what I've said and reject it all you wish.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 5 Sep, 2013 05:51 pm
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

Frank, when I was young I used to believe pretty much as you do now .


I do not do "believing", JL...so you cannot be doing "the believing" I am doing now.

And just what do you suppose I am "believing"...other than that I do not know what the true nature of Reality IS?



Quote:

But you claim not to see what I see after many of effort. I hope you do someday--for your sake. Now this arrogance I have just expressed is very unpleasant for me so don't expect me to expand on it. Just think about what I've said and reject it all you wish.


This does not make sense. You don't have to expand on it, JL...you just have to make it coherent.

You seem to be supposing that I am "believing" something.

Please tell me what you are supposing that I am "believing."
neologist
 
  2  
Thu 5 Sep, 2013 07:23 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
. . .Please tell me what you are supposing that I am "believing."
Just a 'guess' of course, but I 'suppose' you 'believe' you are correct. Laughing Laughing Laughing
vikorr
 
  1  
Thu 5 Sep, 2013 09:54 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I do not do "believing", JL...so you cannot be doing "the believing" I am doing now.
Believing may be the wrong word. Belief is an attachment to a concept. You value 'not knowing' and in valuing it, you are attached to that concept...so in the end,your values existence fits into the intent/meaning of JL's 'I used to believe as you do'.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 6 Sep, 2013 03:16 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
. . .Please tell me what you are supposing that I am "believing."
Just a 'guess' of course, but I 'suppose' you 'believe' you are correct. Laughing Laughing Laughing


I do NOT believe I am correct. I KNOW I am correct.

I DO NOT KNOW THE TRUE NATURE OF REALITY.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 6 Sep, 2013 03:17 am
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

Quote:
I do not do "believing", JL...so you cannot be doing "the believing" I am doing now.
Believing may be the wrong word. Belief is an attachment to a concept. You value 'not knowing' and in valuing it, you are attached to that concept...so in the end,your values existence fits into the intent/meaning of JL's 'I used to believe as you do'.


Nonsense.
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Fri 6 Sep, 2013 06:03 am
@Frank Apisa,
You are quite hunkered down in your corner, Frank. How do you ever find your golf ball? How can you KNOW where they went?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 6 Sep, 2013 07:21 am
@IRFRANK,
IRFRANK wrote:

You are quite hunkered down in your corner, Frank. How do you ever find your golf ball? How can you KNOW where they went?


I KNOW plenty of things, Frank. Just because I acknowledge that I do not know the things I do not know...does not mean that I know nothing.

People who are unwilling...or who do not have the strength of character...to acknowledge they do not know the stuff they do not know often characterize people who do as "not knowing anything."

That just is silly.
JLNobody
 
  1  
Fri 6 Sep, 2013 10:38 am
@vikorr,
That's right, Vikorr. It IS an attachment as you describe it. It is also a tactic: If he cannot raise the stature of his "beliefs" he tries instead to demolish those of his "competitors" by his generalized agnosticism, i.e., nobody knows anything. My skepticism is not too much different, but it is not a tactical debating maneuver.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 6 Sep, 2013 10:57 am
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

That's right, Vikorr. It IS an attachment as you describe it. It is also a tactic: If he cannot raise the stature of his "beliefs" he tries instead to demolish those of his "competitors" by his generalized agnosticism, i.e., nobody knows anything. My skepticism is not too much different, but it is not a tactical debating maneuver.


One...I've never said "Nobody knows anything."

Two...I do not try to demolish the guesses of my debate partners. I often acknowledge that the guesses MAY BE CORRECT.

Three...simply because I am using arguments that are unassailable is not reason to call them merely a tactic. You ought to try using unassailable arguments yourself.
neologist
 
  1  
Fri 6 Sep, 2013 11:59 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
neologist wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
. . .Please tell me what you are supposing that I am "believing."
Just a 'guess' of course, but I 'suppose' you 'believe' you are correct. Laughing Laughing Laughing
I do NOT believe I am correct. I KNOW I am correct.

I DO NOT KNOW THE TRUE NATURE OF REALITY.
OK, Frank. I was just guessing
 

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