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Reality - thing or phenomenon?

Forums: Reality, Philosophy
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 01:04 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Frank holds what you and I would call beliefs, but he calls them something else.


Dozens upon dozens upon dozens of times over the many years I have been here (and over at Abuzz)...I have mentioned that I make guesses just like anyone else; I make estimates just like anyone else; I make suppositions just like anyone else.

I call my guesses...guesses; I call my estimates...estimates; I call my suppositions...suppositions.

People who want to disguise their guesses, estimates or suppositions by calling them "beliefs" are free to do so. I have mentioned many, many times the reasons why I think this can lead to problems with the words...so...

...I DO NOT DO THAT.

I HAVE NO BELIEFS.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 01:08 pm
@Frank Apisa,
No, Frank, you do not always make "estimates." When you say "I'm sure" that is conclusive of a belief and an opinion.

It doesn't matter how you might try to justify otherwise; it doesn't make any difference to others who read your posts.

You're having problems with the English language.

"I'm sure" is not an estimate, but it can be a guess; your's.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 01:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

No, Frank, you do not always make "estimates." When you say "I'm sure" that is conclusive of a belief and an opinion.


No...it is not. But trying to get that through your skull obviously is not going to work. So I'll just keep repeating it...and let it echo off the concrete.

An opinion, ci, is not a belief...unless you make it one by disguising that it is an opinion and calling it a belief.

I do not do that.

Quote:
It doesn't matter how you might try to justify otherwise; it doesn't make any difference to others who read your posts.


I do not really care if you or anyone else gets what I am saying. I'd love for you to do so, but I am not going to lose sleep if you do not.

I am sharing my opinions...if you want them to be "beliefs" you are going to have to wait a very, very long time.


Quote:
You're having problems with the English language.


No...actually, I am pretty good with the English language. You are having trouble posting without trying to slip insult in.


Quote:
"I'm sure" is not an estimate, but it can be a guess; your's.


If I am saying "I am sure"...then I am saying I know...or I am using a colloquialism. Give me a link to whatever the hell is bothering you and I will try to explain it again.

Why are you so determined to assert that I have beliefs? What does it mean to your life?

I absolutely do NOT HAVE BELIEFS.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 01:44 pm
@Frank Apisa,
"I'm sure" is a subjective statement; therefore it's a belief. It's not a FACT.

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 01:49 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

"I'm sure" is a subjective statement; therefore it's a belief. It's not a FACT.




The words "I'm sure" mean...I am sure. It has nothing to do with "belief."

You simply want to call everything "belief", ci. I don't.

If I am sure...I will say that I am sure. (Sometimes, when using the expression colloquially, I am not actually sure, I am just guessing.)

EXAMPLE: I am sure you understand what I am saying, ci.

(Although I probably will never do that, because you have trouble understanding what I am clearly saying...and you compulsion to insist that I have beliefs has become an obsession with you.)
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 01:50 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Give me the link, ci. At least I will have some idea of what in hell you are so frantic about.
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 02:06 pm
@Olivier5,
What you forget is that every word in that question is a human concept.
IMO My answer was not convoluted. On the contrary it was lucid in that it pointed out exactly in what contexts an answer of "yes" might make sense.

As for that particular word "existence", I have already stated my position that "existence" is always relative, never absolute. And something does indeed require a thinger/observer to specify its particularity....what promtes it as an entity against a backdrop.
Quote:
Man is the measure of all things Protagoras

and those faniliar with statistics will know that the first level of measurement is "nominal" (i.e. naming)
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 02:09 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

What you don't get is that every word in that statement is a human concept.

As for that particular word "existence", I have already stated my position that "existence" is always relative, never absolute. And something does indeed require a thinger/observer to specify its particularity.
Quote:
Man is the measure of all things Protagoras

and those faniliar with statistics will know that the first level of measurement is "nominal" (i.e. naming)


So before the Big Bang...and for several billions of years after...there was NO existence???

Why do you play these games, Fresco?

There either was or was not existence at that time. It was an absolute. How could it not have been...no matter which way you answer.

It could not be relative...no matter which way you answer.

fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 02:23 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Even amateur astronomers must know (ho ho) that the physics of "the big bang" implies that there was no "before" that proposed event. "Time" (or space-time) started at that point. And what there "was" thereafter is a picture in the minds eye of current commentators with specific heuristic agendas.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 02:35 pm
@Frank Apisa,
We "all" know you don't have "beliefs." You've repeated that ad nauseam.
You just contradict yourself over and over and over......
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 02:36 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Me "frantic?" You're way out of your league. Your "belief" that I'm frantic belongs on the laffer curve.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 02:40 pm
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Even amateur astronomers must know (ho ho) that the physics of "the big bang" implies that there was no "before" that proposed event. "Time" (or space-time) started at that point. And what there "was" thereafter is a picture in the minds eye of current commentators with specific heuristic agendas.


Even geniuses like you should know that astronomers are not about to suggest that there DEFINITELY was nothing before the Big Bang. Time...and or space/time may have started here in what we call "the universe"...but that does not mean science can rule out the possibility that time and space exists outside the result of the Big Bang.

Try not to bite off more than you can chew, Fresco.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 02:42 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

We "all" know you don't have "beliefs." You've repeated that ad nauseam.
You just contradict yourself over and over and over......


No, I do not contradict myself. You arbitrarily and gratuitously designate my opinions as "beliefs"...and then claim I am contradicting myself.

Where is the link, ci?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 02:45 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Me "frantic?" You're way out of your league. Your "belief" that I'm frantic belongs on the laffer curve.


No...tell me you did not use the "you're out of your league" thingy on me, ci.

That kind of thing is for amateurs, ci...sorta like starting a novel with the line, "It was a dark and stormy night."

We are in the same league. Try batting!

Where is the link?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 02:45 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Oh, you know how to read. Good.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 02:47 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Oh, you know how to read. Good.


C'mon, ci. Stop with the pettiness. Where is the link?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 02:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Frank, Since you don't have beliefs, how did you get to where you are today?

http://ezinearticles.com/?Smart-Goals---Why-Youll-Fail-If-You-Dont-Have-These-Three-Beliefs&id=4328420

Did you fail, Frank? LOL
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 02:50 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Frank, Since you don't have beliefs, how did you get to where you are today?


You need beliefs to get here?

Quote:


None of those are actually "beliefs." Look 'em over. That is the problem with the use of the word "belief."
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 02:51 pm
@cicerone imposter,
He obviously believed , or still believes, that the phrase "before the big bang" makes sense.

One would assume he believes his car (if he has one) is where he left it .(If so, he might be be amused to learn that I believed I would be driving to the airport one morning only to find that mine had been stolen during the night).

Indeed all planning involves multiple levels of belief, and some would say "planning" is what differentiates us from other animals.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Jun, 2013 02:52 pm
@Frank Apisa,
How would you know? You don't have beliefs. You only have guesses.
You're full of contradiction or as many would say, bull ****!

BTW, I'm posting this with a smile. Mr. Green Mr. Green Laughing Laughing Laughing
 

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