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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
revelette
 
  2  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 08:13 am
Zimmerman Juror Tells Anderson Cooper That Some Wanted To Convict Initially

Quote:
MIAMI — As they began deliberating in George Zimmerman's murder trial, three of the six jurors wanted to acquit him while the other three wanted to convict him of either murder or manslaughter, one of the jurors said.

The six-woman jury ultimately voted to acquit Zimmerman in the fatal shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.

Zimmerman was charged with second-degree murder in last year's shooting but the jury also was allowed to consider manslaughter.

The woman, known as Juror B37, told CNN's Anderson Cooper on Monday that when the jury began deliberations Friday, they took an initial vote. Three jurors_ including B37 – were in favor of acquittal, two supported manslaughter and one backed second-degree murder. She said the jury started going through all the evidence, listening to tapes multiple times.


Juror B37, wasn't she the one who thought it was too late to be out at 7 pm?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 08:17 am
@MontereyJack,
The only little problem with blaming the Florida stand your ground law is the the Trayvon/Zimmerman case was a plain old self defense case.
revelette
 
  2  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 08:21 am
@Linkat,
I take you are speaking of Juror B37 who signed a book deal, but now has changed her mind, and who thought Trayvon Martin shouldn't have been out that late at night. It was around 7 PM something, not three Am. She referred to him as "George" on the CNN interview.

Every call that Zimmerman made to report suspicious persons happened to have been black. Unfortunately black males get hassled all the time just walking down the street or going to stores. If they have nice cars and inference is automatically made that they must be drug dealers.
firefly
 
  0  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 08:22 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
The only little problem with blaming the Florida stand your ground law is the the Trayvon/Zimmerman case was a plain old self defense case.

But the issue was confused for the jurors because the jury instructions regarding self-defense included Stand Your Ground, and the one juror who has already spoken out said that Stand Your Ground was one reason they weren't able to find him guilty of anything.

So, Stand Your Ground did figure into the verdict.
BillRM
 
  2  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 08:24 am
@revelette,
Quote:
Every call that Zimmerman made to report suspicious persons happened to have been black


Please link to the source of your information that every 911 call from Zimmerman concern a black person.....!!!!!!!!!!!
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  2  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 08:28 am
@revelette,
Again it is an opinion - I mentioned one person that stated they had a different opinion, but you can of course even read on here that many others have either side of the opinion. And many other reporters, media, and every day joes - if you were to poll you would see a variety of opinions of whether it was racial or not.

Thus when there is such a variety of viewpoints - it is questionable. If there were no question then everyone - other than the few crazies - would have the same opinion.

The fact that Zimmerman did not volunteer that the suspious person was black and only commented when directly asked, makes it questionable. The fact that friends and neighbors stated he was not racist makes it questionable.
BillRM
 
  2  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 08:33 am
@firefly,
Unless Zimmerman was a mind reader and have some reason to think that Trayvon was going to attacked him before doing so the old duty to retreat if possible before using deadly force does not apply.

It would seems that Zimmerman was viewing Trayvon as possibly looking around for easy ripped off targets and such people are not normally violence.

As far as any possible confusions about the self defense laws in the jury minds the prosecutors have input on the jury instructions.

However under the new or the old laws Zimmerman was cover by the right of self defense.
farmerman
 
  3  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 08:39 am
@BillRM,
cant have it two ways Bill. Zimmerman was presented as a past member of a "neighborhood watch" organization and the handbook that is used has a clear instruction to "Not engage with those that you have under observation" (its not a quote but a paraphrase). Im sure that the Neighborhood watch handbook will play a central role in any civil case the MArtins bring. Zimmerman cant plead ignorance of his own organizations rules of conduct.

Civil case will be interesting

revelette
 
  1  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 08:39 am
@Linkat,
Quote:
The fact that Zimmerman did not volunteer that the suspious person was black and only commented when directly asked, makes it questionable. The fact that friends and neighbors stated he was not racist makes it questionable.


Perhaps but it seems he was obsessed with law enforcement and black males.

Police call logs show George Zimmerman was a man obsessed with suburban law-and-order minutiae—and black men stalking the neighborhood.

Just want to correct an earlier statement I should have said every call that I heard about, some calls might not have stated the race. I am not sure, sure don't want to go through that 47 page document.

BillRM
 
  3  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 08:46 am
@revelette,
Quote:
Just want to correct an earlier statement I should have said every call that I heard about, some calls might not have stated the race. I am not sure, sure don't want to go through that 47 page document.


In other word just a bullshit claim that Zimmerman only call in reports concerning blacks!!!!!!!!!!
revelette
 
  2  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 08:48 am
@BillRM,
I corrected my statement. At the time that was all heard. After reading the article, I couldn't tell if some of the calls were of black males or not. So I corrected my statement.

From the article I posted previously.


Quote:
But the newly released police calls paint Zimmerman as a man obsessed with law and order, with the minutiae of suburban life, and with black males.

Most of the calls seem to cover mundanities: Zimmerman reported a male driving with no headlights; a yellow speedbike popping wheelies on I-4; an aggressive white-and-brown pitbull; an Orange County municipal pickup cutting people off on the road; loud parties; open garage doors; and the antics of an ex-roommate, Josh, that he'd thrown out of their apartment. On September 9, 2009, he called to report another pothole, this one on Greenwood road, advising the dispatcher that "it is deep and can cause damage to vehicles."

He especially had concerns about kids in the neighborhood. On June 16, 2009, shortly after school had let out for the summer, he called to complain about six to eight youths playing basketball near his development's clubhouse, "jumping over the fence going into pool area and trashing the bathroom," according to the dispatcher's notes. This past January, he called to report five or six children, ages 4 to 11, playing in the neighborhood. The kids, he told a dispatcher, "play in the street and like to run out [in front of] cars."

But when there weren't kids or garbage to report, he'd spend his evenings looking for would-be burglars. At 2:38 a.m. on Nov. 4, 2006, he called about a late-model Red Toyota pickup "driving real slow looking at all the [vehicles] in the complex and blasting music from his [vehicle]." It's not clear if Zimmerman feared the driver was a car thief, though car thieves tend not to blast music through the neighborhood while practicing their craft.

But even more than cars, he was concerned about black men on foot in the neighborhood. In August 2011, he called to report a black male in a tank top and shorts acting suspicious near the development's back entrance. "[Complainant] believes [subject] is involved in recent S-21s"—break-ins—"in the neighborhood," the call log states. The suspect, Zimmerman told the dispatcher, fit a recent description given out by law enforcement officers.

Three days later, he called to report two black teens in the same area, for the same reason. "[Juveniles] are the subjs who have been [burglarizing] in this area," he told the dispatcher.

And last month, on Feb. 2, Zimmerman called to report a suspicious black man in a leather jacket near one of the development's units. The resident of that townhouse, Zimmerman told dispatch, was a white male. Police stopped by to investigate, but no one was there, and the residence was secure.

After that, there's one final call logged in the report. At 7:11 on February 26, Zimmerman called police to report a black male in a dark gray hoodie. A few minutes later, that male—Trayvon Martin—lay dead on the sidewalk.

BillRM
 
  2  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 08:52 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
to "Not engage with those that you have under observation" (its not a quote but a paraphrase).


First he was walking his dog at the time not patrolling for crime watch, second following to keep an eye on someone is not in my opinion engaging someone.

Next all kind of very interesting information that did not come out in the criminal trial will likely come out in a civil trial such as Trayvon cell phone picture of a gun and jewels on a bed and text messages and other statements on how he enjoy fighting.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 08:55 am
@farmerman,
I had forgotten that the Martin family had already brought, and settled, one civil lawsuit.
Quote:

The New York Times
April 5, 2013
Settlement Is Reached With Family in Slaying
By LIZETTE ALVAREZ

MIAMI — The parents of Trayvon Martin, the unarmed teenager who was shot by George Zimmerman last year, have settled a wrongful-death lawsuit against the homeowners’ association in the gated community where he was killed.

At the time of the shooting, Mr. Zimmerman was the neighborhood watch captain at the development, the Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, Fla., where he lived with his wife. A homeowners’ association newsletter sent to residents in February 2012, the same month as the shooting, cited Mr. Zimmerman as the person to contact for neighborhood watch issues. The newsletter suggested that if concerns arose, they first call the police and then alert Mr. Zimmerman.

After Mr. Martin’s death, his parents, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton, sued the association for wrongful death. The amount of the settlement was not revealed. As is customary in such settlements, the association admitted no guilt in Mr. Martin’s death and all parties are bound to confidentiality. The Orlando Sentinel obtained the portion of the settlement that was made public Friday at the Seminole County courthouse.

The Martin family’s lawyer, Benjamin Crump, has said he planned to file a separate lawsuit against Mr. Zimmerman at a later date.

The Martin family and the association tried to settle the lawsuit through mediation earlier in the year but talks fell apart after Mr. Martin’s parents rejected a $1 million offer, said Mark O’Mara, Mr. Zimmerman’s criminal lawyer. Negotiations later resumed and the two sides ultimately reached an agreement. The Travelers Casualty and Surety Company of America is the association’s insurer.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/06/us/trayvon-martins-parents-settle-wrongful-death-suit.html
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 08:57 am
@revelette,
Quote:
corrected my statement. At the time that was all heard. After reading the article, I couldn't tell if some of the calls were of black males or not. So I corrected my statement.


Only after being challenge and if you had not been challenge the impression of Zimmerman, you did wish to give, of him being a racist that only view blacks as likely criminals would had stood.
revelette
 
  3  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 09:02 am
@BillRM,
Who challenged me? I saw it myself and corrected it.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  3  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 09:09 am
I didn't see where you challenged me. I know it seems a likely story considering I do respond to you, but you are one of the ones I have on ignore and I didn't see your post before responding to the correction. I believe it was all around the same time I was still posting. It takes me a while as I edit myself a million times if I can get away with it and I might be searching while I am still editing... I looked back after saying who challenged me and noticed you did. Embarrassing all the way around.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 09:34 am
@BillRM,
The issue of whether Zimmerman is a racist is apart from the issue of whether Martin was profiled because he was black, and whether that profiling directly influenced the actions and circumstances that led to his death.

Someone walking around a housing complex at 7 pm, while talking on a cell phone, is not doing anything inherently "suspicious" and they certainly aren't engaging in any criminal activity.

However, when that person is a young black male, particularly one wearing a hoodie, their innocuous behavior can suddenly become worthy of note, and their actions become "suspicious" and suggestive of possible criminal activity. Young black men are subjected to this type of biased scrutiny, and stereotyping, far too often.

Zimmerman was driving to Target that night when he spotted Martin. He saw a young black male, in a hoodie, he didn't recognize. That was what made him take note of Martin in the first place. He immediately had concerns about what this young black male was doing there, and what he was up to.

Had Martin been a white kid, Zimmerman probably would have kept on driving to Target. Martin's physical appearance fit in with a racial profile Zimmerman already had in his mind of a "criminal type", one of those "f--king punks" who had been responsible for other crimes in that housing complex.

The issue for the Justice Dept. to consider is not whether Zimmerman is a racist, but whether his racial profiling contributed to the death of Trayvon Martin, and whether Trayvon Martin wound up dead that night because of biased assumptions Zimmerman made about him based on his race.

0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  3  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 09:34 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
Trayvon Martin, in fear for his life, ran to avoid confrontation.
He had NO REASON to "fear".
There is nothing improper with following anyone.
When I was a trial lawyer, I hired private detectives
to follow people (among other things) and then have
the private investigator testify in front of judge
& jury qua the findings of that pursuit; no problems.
Thru out American history, it has never been held
that following anyone is un-lawful, nor immoral.



MontereyJack wrote:
Zimmerman pursued him and forced that confrontation.
The bad guy got away, out of sight,
within ez access of his home, but he RETURNED and violently ambushed Zimmy.





MontereyJack wrote:
Under Florida law, Trayvon and Trayvon alone had the unquestionable right to determine when he felt under threat of great bodily harm and possible death, Under Florida law he had the unquestionable right to kill Zimmerman at that point.
No; Florida says: "reasonably".
It is very un-reasonable to become violent against anyone merely
for so innocuous an act as FOLLOWING.

If a black had followed a white and the white had killed him for it,
the blacks 'd be screaming in defense of the dead follower.
Indeed, TM did follow Zimmy, initiating the confrontation and
perpetrating the violence upon Zimmy, presumably because
he believed Zimmy to be un-armed. He picked the rong victim.



MontereyJack wrote:
Under your own arguments, David, you must concede him that right.
SPECIFY the arguments to which u refer, please.




MontereyJack wrote:
But I'm pretty sure you'd be screaming bloody murder right now
if Trayvon had succeeded in asserting the rights Florida law gave him, and Zimmerman was the one lying dead.
Not if the situation were directly reversed. I 'd apologize to Martin,
on behalf of the white race. If I had an identical twin brother
who perpetrated upon TM the acts that TM actually did inflict
upon Zimmy, then I 'd apologize to TM, on behalf of my family
whom he 'd have disgraced.

Jack, I don't begrudge it to the blacks that thay prefer their own race.
I 'd not condemn anyone of any race who prefers his own race above others;
its only natural (liberal ideology to the contrary notwithstanding),
but in this case, the blacks elected to subordinate the truth
to racial loyalty and to subordinate the elementary morality
of the natural right to defend yourself from predatory violence
to racial loyalty; that is REPREHENSIBLE in the extreme.

Good and sound reasoning prevailed in the end; I was sure that it wud. OK,
but if Zimmy had been convicted (e.g., if the jury 'd been packed
with leftists or blacks): my rage wud have surpassed ineffability.
White fury wud slowly build. Resentment wud fester,
as Zimmy suffered in prison (be it for 30 years or 30 minutes).
A conviction wud have conformed Florida law to the notion
that u have freedom of self defense if a white attacks u,
but legally, u must allow a black to beat your head on the
street to his delight, if u wanna avoid long-term incarceration.

To say that resentful ill will against the black race
wud slowly grow as the whites considered this state of affairs
(with journalists n columnists commenting n analyzing it)
is much to understate the case. I 'd remain peaceful,
but I 'd hold Zimmy 's plight (and the corrupt state of the law
with its potential applications) against the black race collectively
in my discretionary decisions with them, modest & humble
tho my vengeance wud be.

If the blacks actually feel that way now toward us,
then let it be and bring it on. We 'll deal with it.





David
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  -2  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 09:39 am
@Linkat,
You're wrong, because of what Zimmerman said. You do understand logic, don't you? Who do you think he meant by "assholes?" A white boy or a Hispanic?

Quote:
SANFORD
911 tape shows George Zimmerman lamenting that the “a--holes always get away.”


Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/16/2697604/trayvon-martins-parents-criss.html#storylink=cpy
BillRM
 
  4  
Tue 16 Jul, 2013 09:44 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Who do you think he meant by "assholes?" A white boy or a Hispanic?


Anyone of any color who he was under the impression that was looking to ripped off his neighbors would be my guess but of course that does not fit into your world view of him being a racist.
 

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