The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

revelette wrote:
Not that it did have an effect, only that it could have had an effect.

And that's enough to retain Zimmerman's allegation that "he's on drugs or something", "he" being Martin, as a reasonable hypothesis other than racism about the reason Zimmerman suspected him.

Being on drugs isn't any more a reason for a death sentence than being black is.

I don't really see how Martin smoking some weed would exonerate Zimmerman.

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

"Depraved" means "morally corrupt". You need no morally-corrupt mind to find someone suspicious when he appears to be on drugs.

IMO, you're morally corrupt if you shoot someone because you're losing a fist fight.

Just sayin'.

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@DrewDad,

I agree because of the following statement.

Quote:

However, unlike blood alcohol concentration tests, they do not indicate a level of intoxication or impairment.

There will need to be a huge leap of faith that the marijuana impaired Martin's judgement - or that he was intoxicated.

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@Thomas,

"Depraved" doesn't just mean "morally corrupt" in terms of Florida's second degree murder statute.

Quote:

Overview of Florida Second Degree Murder Laws

In Florida, state laws establish several types of homicide, the unlawful killing of a human being. The state prosecutes homicides as murders and manslaughters -- it may be helpful to know the multiple types of murders established by state law and understand the differences among them.
In particular, second degree murder lacks the premeditation often required for the prosecution of a first degree murder.

To prove second degree murder, a prosecutor must show that the defendant acted according to a "depraved mind" without regard for human life. Florida state laws permit the prosecution of second degree murder when the killing lacked premeditation or planning, but the defendant acted with enmity toward the victim or the two had an ongoing interaction or relationship. Unlike first degree murder, second degree murder does not necessarily require proof of the defendant's intent to kill. -

See more at: http://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida-law/florida-second-degree-murder-laws.html#sthash.HRArXQUW.dpuf

The state contends, and I also believe, that Zimmerman acted with enmity toward Martin--Martin was one of those "m---er--f---ing punks" that always committed crimes and managed to get away with them, in Zimmerman's mind-set. Zimmerman profiled Martin out of enmity, followed him out of enmity, confronted him with enmity, and, I think, felt enmity toward him as he fired a bullet into him, and the enmity, rather than a reasonable fear for his life, was the reason he fired that gun.

I've been saying all along this case hinges on Zimmerman's credibility. I have great difficulty giving a brazen liar, as his bail hearing proved him to be, the benefit of the doubt, particularly when his version of the events leading up to the shooting also has inconsistencies and contradictions which suggest he is lying.

I'm not sure whether the state has managed to convince the jury of their case for second degree murder, beyond a reasonable doubt, but, to the extent they've damaged his credibility, they have weakened his self-defense claim. Zimmerman may wind up with an acquittal, but he's never going to be completely exonerated in the public mind, this killing will hang over his head the rest of his life, with good reason.

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@firefly,

youre waay out on a limb here. Your assertions hardly constitute any compelling proof. Sorry. I think that
1HE did it
2 He did it with a momentary lapse
3However he was surprised that martin was dead after he initial interviews and the cops were believing him

3He appears very credible a witness on tape

4If he skates on testifying because the prosecution blew its wad on opening, that will cement the culpable negligence .

I think the jury will (at this point even before the defense put on its case) have a default in choosing manslaughter.
6 I don't thinl he will walk but I don't think its gonna be M2

"culpable negligence" is also grounds for Manslaughter by car.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Quote:

3He appears very credible a witness on tape

Really? He told Sean Hannity he had never heard of Stand Your Ground Before.

He took a college course that covered it, along with other self defense laws, and he got an A in the class.

The man is a bald-faced liar.

He also contends that Martin was hiding in bushes waiting for him, in an area that doesn't have bushes large enough to conceal someone 5'11".

Even his excuse that he got out of his car to walk around and look for a street address to give the police wasn't credible--there was a clearly visible street number right in the location he walked away from to go pursue Martin.

He's a liar. He denies following Martin when that's exactly what he was doing.

I agree with you that this might wind up with a manslaughter conviction.

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@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

I don't really see how Martin smoking some weed would exonerate Zimmerman.

A murder charge requires a depraved mind. A racist mind is depraved --- or as the dictionary puts it, morally corrupt. By contrast, the mind of an officious, overconfident, and overzealous neighborhood watchman is not depraved, even when the consequences are tragic. That's how Martin being intoxicated would exonerate Zimmerman --- not of being a dick, but of being a criminal.

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@Thomas,

Since intoxication is not a natural outcome of marajuana smoking, how can anyone jump to that conclusion about Martin?

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@Thomas,

Quote:

...Martin being intoxicated would exonerate Zimmerman...

But Martin wasn't "intoxicated"--that's not what the ME said on the stand.

He had a trace amount of pot in his system, which may not have affected him at all. It was such a small amount, the ME couldn't say it definitely did affect him, but he couldn't rule out the possibility it didn't affect him at all. That's nowhere near being "intoxicated" or under the influence.

This ME was an awful witness. I'm not sure he helped either side.

The state would have been better off resting their case with Martin's mother and brother and putting the ME on the stand before them.

1 Reply

@Thomas,

"find someone suspicious when he appears to be on drugs"...

he could tell Martin had smoked pot in the last 30 days???

please tell me how the kid "appeared to be on drugs".

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@firefly,

firefly wrote:

Quote:
...Martin being intoxicated would exonerate Zimmerman...

But Martin wasn't "intoxicated"--that's not what the ME said on the stand.

He said the concentration he had measured in Martin's blood may or may not have had an effect. If it did have an effect, that would plausibly explain why Zimmerman thought "he's on drugs or something." Remember, this story is not for Zimmerman's story to prove; it's for Florida's to refute. And if the THC dosage had an effect --- as the autopsist said it may have --- then Florida has not refuted the story.

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@Rockhead,

I wasn't at the scene. You'll need to ask Zimmerman that.

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@Rockhead,

I'll get back to Zimmerman's lie, because I believe this is very important to the case.

Quote:

CBSTV Videos
Last year, George Zimmerman, the man who fatally shot Trayvon Martin, said he didn't know about Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law. But Zimmerman's former community college professor testified that the defendant received an "A" in his criminal justice class, which included discussions about self-defense and that particular law. CBS News legal analyst Jack Ford explains what the testimony could mean in the case.

This is VERY IMPORTANT, BECAUSE IT SHOWS ZIMMERMAN'S TESTIMONY TO THE POLICE CANNOT BE TRUSTED.

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@Thomas,

but he's a liar...

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@Thomas,

and I gotta say that folks that are high on pot are NOT casing for a burglary.

were his skittles open?

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

You'll need to ask Zimmerman that.

I wouldn't trust Zimmerman to ask him the time of day, let alone something that affects the case....

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@Rockhead,

That's true; if anything he may have been suffering some anxiety, but that can't be proven one way or another.

From Wiki.

Quote:

Anxiety
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses, see Anxiety (disambiguation).

Anxiety is an unpleasant state of inner turmoil and apprehension, often accompanied by nervous behavior, such as pacing back and forth, somatic complaints and rumination.[2] It is the subjectively unpleasant feelings of dread over something unlikely to happen, such as the feeling of imminent death.[3] Anxiety is feeling unrealistic fear, worry, and uneasiness, usually generalized and unfocused.[4] It is often accompanied by restlessness, fatigue, problems in concentration, and muscular tension. Anxiety is not considered to be a normal reaction to a perceived stressor although many feel it occasionally. When anxiety becomes overwhelming and distressing to the sufferer, it may fall under the psychiatric diagnosis of anxiety disorder.[5] Anxiety is not the same as fear. Fear is evoked by a realistic danger and is an appropriate response to a perceived threat, while anxiety is worry or overreaction to a situation that is only subjectively seen as menacing.[6]

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@Rockhead,

Rockhead wrote:

but he's a liar...

Sure. So what? Lying is legal.

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@Thomas,

I know.

dave has explained that...

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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

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