27
   

The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 10:46 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
So...if someone like Mike Tyson decided to give you a great big kiss and maybe pinch your butt...you would just slap his face...and be satisfied that the matter was settled.

Am I correct?


Hmm he is kind of cute...........


Yup...you would welcome such a kiss...in order not to see the absurdity of your position.


BillRM
 
  0  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 10:51 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Quote:
Yeah but put yourself in the kid's shoes- you notice a suspicious guy tailing you after dark, so you walk over to ask why, but he reaches for something on his right hip so what would any of us do,
1- Run like hell?
2- Stand still and put our hands up?
2- Dive on him?


Second jumping to that conclusion when Zimmerman was reaching for his cell phone would be call imperfect self defense and he would not had been protection under the self defense laws those it might reduce his sentence for killing Zimmerman.

Quote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperfect_self-defense

imperfect self-defense is a common law doctrine recognized by some jurisdictions whereby a defendant may mitigate punishment or sentencing imposed for a crime involving the use of deadly force by claiming, as a partial affirmative defense, the honest but unreasonable belief that the actions were necessary to counter an attack.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 10:54 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Yup...you would welcome such a kiss...in order not to see the absurdity of your position.


My lord talk about an absurdity position placing any force kiss into the same classification as a rape or an attempted rape!!!!!!!!!!!!

An then trying to fool people over how common rape or attempt rape happen to be by doing so.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 11:21 am
@OmSigDAVID,
U stupid prick. No body won, everyone lost.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 11:25 am
@OmSigDAVID,
You,
Quote:
Zimmy WON; U lost!


You're too stupid to understand what you just said.
BillRM
 
  0  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 11:47 am
@RABEL222,
Quote:
U stupid prick. No body won, everyone lost.


Compared to the victim Zimmerman being killed and Trayvon being locked up for decades or Zimmerman being sentence to decades behind bars for the "crime" of self defense there was indeed a win.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  0  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 11:47 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
You're too stupid to understand what you just said.


Apparently, you are too.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 12:01 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Yup...you would welcome such a kiss...in order not to see the absurdity of your position.


My lord talk about an absurdity position placing any force kiss into the same classification as a rape or an attempted rape!!!!!!!!!!!!


You seem to be the only one here doing that. I certainly am not...and I have not heard anyone else do so except you.

If you think it absurd...why are you doing it???



BillRM
 
  0  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 01:42 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
You seem to be the only one here doing that. I certainly am not...and I have not heard anyone else do so except you.


No the assholes who was paid by the DOJ for their study and Firefly in trying to in other threads using that study for promoting the idea that rape is common on colleges campuses along with the news media that had reported on that study without bothering to explain that the study list such minor misdeeds as force or even attempted force kissing in the same class as rapes or attempted rapes.

The majority of the so call victims listed in that study and similar studies have complained that they do not consider what had happen to them to be an sexual assaults of any nature.

With more then half also having ongoing relationships with their so call sexual attackers.

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  0  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 03:14 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
U stupid prick. No body won, everyone lost.

David and the others think they have "won" because, for them, none of this is about the actual legal case of Florida vs George Zimmerman--that case was simply about whether Zimmerman murdered someone, an unarmed minor he shot and killed after stalking the teen through his darkened gated private community. A jury found him not guilty of second degree murder, it passed no judgment, at all on his victim, something someone not familiar with this case would ever guess from reading this thread and listening to his "supporters". The jury also gave no stamp of approval to Zimmerman's reckless and ill-considered actions that led to the encounter with his victim, their verdict simply said that, at the time he pulled the trigger, he did so, not out of malice, but because he felt he had to, in order to protect his own life. Someone would also not realize that by reading his "supporters" comments in this thread--which, somewhat bizarrely, tend to almost exclusively focus on the actions of his victim, and his victim's character, all of which is considerably more fantasy than fact, rather than on Zimmerman's own conduct that night, which was really what his legal case was all about--Zimmerman's behavior that night, and Zimmerman's credibility regarding his version of events. In the real world, it was Zimmerman who was on trial, not his victim, but you'd never know that by reading his supporter's comments on this thread.

So, if it's not really about the actual legal case for these people, what is it about? The guns of course. These are the A2K gun-nuts circling their wagons to protect their guns, shooter-friendly self-defense gun laws, and their "right" to use those guns without legal consequences, and why they allegedly need to have them for "protection".

To make this case, they have to considerably distort the Zimmerman case, and ignore known facts about Zimmerman himself. Zimmerman was not "attacked", out of the blue, by an assailant whose intention was to commit a crime, like a mugging, against him. Zimmerman chose to stalk someone who wasn't bothering him, or anyone else. Had he exercised better judgment, and engaged in less impulsive and reckless actions, the confrontation that required the use of his gun would never have come about. And the fact he had a gun, may have affected his foolhardy vigilante actions that night--the gun empowered him, and it may have decreased his need to act in a more prudent manner, to act in a manner that would have avoided any harm to anyone. Without his gun, Zimmerman might well have just remained in his vehicle and no one would have gotten hurt--an innocent teen would still be alive, and Zimmerman's life wouldn't be in shambles.

Zimmerman wasn't being a "good citizen" or a "hero" that night--he acted like an asshole, a wannabe cop whose reckless behavior proved why we should leave law enforcement to the real cops.

The gun nuts can't accept that reality, so they just ignore it, and parade him around as a example of why they need their guns--because you never know when some black kid, just innocently walking home from the store, might suddely turn into a crazed "hoodlum" and try to kill you for no reason. Rolling Eyes And you need it to protect yourself from all those angry black folks who allegedly threaten to "riot" when they protest second-rate treatment by the criminal justice system, because it chose to ignore the questionable death of an unarmed black male. No one actually threatened riots, they threatened only to continue their peaceful protests until their concerns were addressed. But the gun nuts ignore that--they need to believe that those riots were threatened and imminent. Their message is, "You need your guns to protect you from these scary blacks." They must have been terribly disappointed when riots didn't occur after the verdict. And now one of those blacks is the President, and they know he's coming for their guns. The paranoia, as well as the covert racism, is fairly obvious.

It's all about their guns. And they feel they "won" this one because a shooter got away with using his gun to kill someone, and they don't care that his need to use that gun was totally avoidable, and that he caused an avoidable death.

And, rather than having any qualms about Zimmerman possessing guns now, given his long-standing anger management problems, and his menacing people with threats of gun use since his acquittal, these gun nuts are celebrating the fact he's getting his guns back, David's even suggesting better guns for him.

It's all about the guns, Rabel222, these are the frightened, paranoid types who need their guns in order to feel adequate, in order to feel "manly", in order to feel safe from all those people in the world they think are out to get them, despite the fact that all available evidence indicates their guns make them less safe, and makes their domestic partners less safe. Their need for their guns for alleged self-protection, for these particular posters, is not based in any realistic need, for them the need is emotional--it's their potency symbol. The thought of being without those guns, affects them like the 4 year old who's just had his security blanket snatched away, it sends them into a total panic. That's just about the emotional level they're at.

It's all about the guns.
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 03:50 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
So, if it's not really about the actual legal case for these people, what is it about? The guns of course.
i have been on this thread a fair bit, and my interest is not very much on the guns. my primary interest is the abuse of zimmerman at the hands of the state, the second is these idiotic stand your ground laws, and my third is the right of citizens to discourage criminal behavior around them.
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 04:09 pm
And in other "hell, yes, we need multiple guns for self=defense" news:
A kid in Colorado, where they recalled a couple state senators for supporting sensible gun laws, was apparently pissed that his god-given free speech rights were violated when he was kicked off the debate team, went looking for the teacher responsible with a shotgun. He didn't find the teacher, but he shot another student, clearly in self-defense, right? And a guy in Reno, who lives near a golf course, thought his life was being threatened when a golf ball came through his window. So he took his shotgun and shot the golfer. Another clear cas of self-defense. Not a case of idiocy and irresponsibility, no, never. Clear self-defense. Too many guns, owned by too many idiots. And too many idiots defending them.
firefly
 
  0  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 04:32 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
i have been on this thread a fair bit, and my interest is not very much on the guns. my primary interest is the abuse of zimmerman at the hands of the state, the second is these idiotic stand your ground laws, and my third is the right of citizens to discourage criminal behavior around them.

What even makes you think I was referring to you with my comments in my previous post?

I know you're not a gun nut. And I also know you've even questioned Zimmerman's need to use lethal force that night.

I disagree with you about Zimmerman "being abused at the hands of the state"--the circumstances of Martin's death were questionable from the outset. He should have been charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, just as the chief police investigator recommended to the D.A. There should never have been the need for the protests and demonstrations. People cannot have an unfettered license to kill--it is perfectly appropriate to hold someone legally answerable for their actions when they kill someone, particularly under questionable circumstances, and particularly when the police investigator finds their version of events "unconvincing".

I agree with you that Zimmerman was overcharged, but I can't see where that made him more "abused" than if the charge was only manslaughter--he would have gone through the same trial either way. The state really believed he was motivated by animus, and I believe that was a component too, but they didn't have the strong evidence they needed to support the murder charge. But, their over-reaching with their charge didn't "abuse" Zimmerman, it simply helped to blow their case for them, because they might have gotten a conviction if they had just focused on manslaughter.

I believe citizens should discourage criminal behavior too, everyone should be a neighborhood "watcher", everyone should alert the police if they see something suspicious. But I don't want people acting like vigilantes, and I want the job of law enforcement, and pursuing alleged "suspects", left to the real cops, and the Zimmerman case is a good example of why I feel that way.

The "idiotic stand your ground laws" are what the gun nuts want--they want permission to use those guns in situations where their use could be avoided. They're not concerned with saving lives, or preventing deaths--they want to be able to use their guns, without threat of legal consequences, in pretty much any circumstance they choose to use them.

I understand the basis for your interest in this thread. And they are perfectly valid interests.
Advocate
 
  3  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 04:43 pm
@firefly,
I don't understand you. You know full well that M was proceeding to beat Z to a pulp, and that this was witnessed by a neighbor. Considering this, and even disregarding the stand your ground law, Z had the right to shoot M in self defense.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 04:44 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
And I also know you've even questioned Zimmerman's need to use lethal force that night.
what I said was that the use of lethal force was outrageous, and that it should have been a criminal offense.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 05:04 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
My accomplishments? LOL
I went to work for Florsheim Shoe Company after graduation from college, and after 3.5 years as a Field Auditor of the seven western states, was promoted to Audit Manager. Have worked in management positions for 88% of my 30 year working career, and retired early. I travel around the world, and have visited over 200 countries (all five continents) - or 89 unique countries, and have friends all around the world. I've done seven trips in 2012 and seven trips this year. My hobby is world travel. My wife and I live in Silicon Valley - and we are surrounded by engineers and scientists in our neighborhood. Unfortunately, this area (our ZIP code) is a high cost of living area. However, engineers with the right skills can earn somewhere between $70,000 to $135,000/year.

Our son served 12 years in the USAF, and made the rank of Major. After his resignation from the air force, he earned his graduated degree from the University of Texas in Austin, and now works for the university.

My wife was a nurse who graduated high school, nursing school, and college with honors. Our older son graduated Summa Cum Laude, and our younger son graduated Cum Laude.

There are seven doctors amongst my nephews and nieces. My older brother was an attorney, and was an Administrative Judge in California. My younger brother is an Ophthalmologist (also served two terms in the state legislature, and also served as Mayor of his town), and my sister was an RN.






firefly
 
  1  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 05:23 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
I don't understand you. You know full well that M was proceeding to beat Z to a pulp, and that this was witnessed by a neighbor.

No, I don't know those things "full well". That's because I watched the trial, the entire trial, which I don't think you bothered to do.

That means I heard and saw the examination and cross-examination of that witness neighbor, who didn't see anything at all clearly, the area was extremely dark. He saw arms moving, which might have been a struggle over the gun, not a fight. He, in no way, was close enough, nor was the area illuminated enough, for him to clearly see what was going on. And he had no idea, at all, whether it was Martin who was acting in self-defense. He was not a convincing witness. And he didn't support Zimmerman's "head-pounding on concrete" story.
Quote:
Good, who had perhaps the best view of any witness, said he did not see anyone's head being slammed into the concrete sidewalk, as Zimmerman claims Martin did to him.

Good initially testified that it appeared "there were strikes being thrown, punches being thrown," but during detailed questioning he said he saw only "downward" arm movements being made....

"It looked like there were strikes being thrown, punches being thrown," Good said.

Good was back inside calling 911 when he heard a gunshot.
http://news.yahoo.com/neighbor-testifies-martin-zimmerman-fight-142241374.html

And, this neighbor never observed what happened just before the gunshot--he went back home before that.

And, you and I have already been through the fact that Zimmerman's extremely minor injuries, as well as the lack of Zimmerman's DNA on Martin's hands, did not support Zimmerman's story of having been "beaten", or his claim that Martin put his hands over his nose and mouth to keep him from screaming for help.

So, you're really choosing to believe Zimmerman's account, which is quite different than looking at all the evidence, including the evidence that does not support Zimmerman's account, and that makes his credibility questionable and suspect.
Quote:
Z had the right to shoot M in self defense

No, the verdict said nothing about what Zimmerman had "a right" to do, it simply said he was "Not Guilty" of murder, or the lesser included offense of manslaughter. In effect, the verdict said only that the state failed to prove its murder case, and to totally discount the possibility he had acted in self-defense.

You really should have watched the trial, Advocate, you'd be a lot better informed if you had done that.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 05:51 pm
@MontereyJack,
.
Quote:
Too many guns, owned by too many idiots. And too many idiots defending them.


No one care about black children that are killed by blacks even if in amazing numbers but let one mixed race man killed a young black hoodlum in self defense is national news and is still national news long after an innocent verdict was issue or let two white school children be injury and it national news.

Talk about racism it is not found in the supporters of mixed race Zimmerman acting in self defense but by the news media just to start with.

footnote Chicago also is a fine example of strict guns laws not keeping guns out of the hands of outlaws.

Quote:


http://lonelyconservative.com/2013/07/16-year-old-chicago-boy-killed-after-refusing-to-join-gang/

I haven’t heard anything from Hollywood celebrities, football players, Al Sharpton, Eric Holder, or President Obama about Darryl Green, a 16 year old Chicago boy. Green was found dead last week, and an autopsy found he died of a gunshot wound. His family said he was killed after he refused to join a gang. Why is nobody demanding justice for Darryl Green?

On Thursday, July 11, police discovered the rotting body of 17-year-old Darryl Green, a black child from the Englewood neighborhood of Chicago. Green’s body was found behind a boarded-up house in the 6500-block of South Damen, face down on basement stairs. The body was so badly decomposed that originally, local news reports suggested that he had died of blunt force trauma. On Friday, an autopsy showed he had been shot to death. Relatives reported that Green had refused to join a gang at school.

Of course, outside of local media in Chicago there has been little coverage of Green’s death. We also don’t hear much about the crime rate in Chicago, a city with strict gun control laws. It’s been an especially violent month.

Green’s murder took place in what has been an especially violent month in Chicago, which in recent years has seen an explosions in killings and gun crime. At least 74 people were shot on the Fourth of July weekend alone, with 12 of those dying from their injuries.

Why are there so few people protesting the death of this young man?






cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 05:55 pm
@BillRM,
Quit this bull shyt about blacks killing blacks. 87% of whites kill whites; that's a FACT; and many are children killers.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sat 14 Dec, 2013 05:59 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
My accomplishments? LOL
I went to work for Florsheim Shoe Company after graduation from college, and after 3.5 years as a Field Auditor of the seven western states, was promoted to Audit Manager. Have worked in management positions for 88% of my 30 year working career, and retired early. I travel around the world, and have visited over 200 countries (all five continents) - or 89 unique countries, and have friends all around the world. I've done seven trips in 2012 and seven trips this year. My hobby is world travel. My wife and I live in Silicon Valley - and we are surrounded by engineers and scientists in our neighborhood. Unfortunately, this area (our ZIP code) is a high cost of living area. However, engineers with the right skills can earn somewhere between $70,000 to $135,000/year.

Our son served 12 years in the USAF, and made the rank of Major. After his resignation from the air force, he earned his graduated degree from the University of Texas in Austin, and now works for the university.

My wife was a nurse who graduated high school, nursing school, and college with honors. Our older son graduated Summa Cum Laude, and our younger son graduated Cum Laude.

There are seven doctors amongst my nephews and nieces. My older brother was an attorney, and was an Administrative Judge in California. My younger brother is an Ophthalmologist (also served two terms in the state legislature, and also served as Mayor of his town), and my sister was an RN.
YOUR accomplishments, huh? The doctors, etc.?

Nevertheless, your post shows that u are able to write nicely,
without hysterical ad hominem malice, when u choose to do so.





David
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.06 seconds on 07/18/2025 at 05:38:33