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The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 03:38 pm
@Thomas,
That brings a whole new issue into this case. re; marijuana
Thomas
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 03:38 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
We still don't know how the jurors have decided this case - thus far. The odds of 5/7 sounds pretty reasonable at this juncture; nobody really knows.

Which bookie made those odds? I'd put the odds at 5:1 for an acquittal, and would be interested in betting against that guy.
revelette
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 03:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Actually I don't think the jury heard any of it. Pretty sure they were out of the room.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 03:42 pm
@Thomas,
I'm not sure who posted these odds earlier in this thread. Just repeating what I read.
Thomas
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 03:45 pm
@revelette,
revelette wrote:
It was a trace amount. Also the doctor first said it shouldn't have affected him that night, then changed his mind because he consulted someone else. We don't know the information he had that made him change his mind, so I don't give a lot of credence to any of it.

That's not the point. The point is that this was one of Zimmerman's stated reasons for suspecting Martin. The actual presence of THC in Martin's blood affirms this argument of Zimmerman's up to a point. It remains a reasonable hypothesis about Zimmerman's motives other than a depraved mind. And to get Zimmerman's acquitted, a reasonable hypothesis is all that it needs to be.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 03:46 pm
Don't know if anybody else has seen it....

But O'Mara basically just blew the state's case totally to hell today with the testimony of Zimmerman's uncle.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 03:49 pm
@Thomas,
How does Zimmerman overcome all the lies that's been confirmed in court?
Thomas
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 03:49 pm
@revelette,
revelette wrote:
Actually I don't think the jury heard any of it. Pretty sure they were out of the room.

The autopsist testified twice on his opinion about the effect of the Marijuana: First with the jury in the room, then with the jury out of the room. (The second time was a at procedural hearing to determine whether the state withheld the autopsist's notes from the defense. Maybe that's what you saw.) So yes. The jury did hear that the autopsist no longer thinks that the marijuana couldn't possibly have affected Martin.
Thomas
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 03:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
How does Zimmerman overcome all the lies that's been confirmed in court?

He doesn't have to. True, Zimmerman is guilty of lying, of exaggerated self-importance, of gratuitously ignoring the 911 dispatcher, and a lot of other things. But all of these things are legal. To go to jail, the state needs to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman committed manslaughter or murder. Every reasonable alternative to the prosecution's story will get Zimmerman acquitted --- whether he's a liar or not, a wannabe cop or not, or wrongly fearing for his life or not.
revelette
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 03:59 pm
@Thomas,
Well, maybe, but the reason he changed his mind, seems to be not clear enough to be able to take what says with any credibility. We don't know why he changed his mind, what new information made him change his mind or anything. Just that he consulted some experts, but not what he expert told him or anything.

It was such a small amount, just a trace, it could have been from days before the night the killing took place when Trayvon Martin smoked a little pot because it can remain in your system for weeks. So it has not been established Trayvon Martin smoked the night in question.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 04:04 pm
@revelette,
About marijuana.
Quote:
Limitations of Drug Tests

Because marijuana stays in the bloodstream for a short time, blood tests for marijuana are usually not used, except in the case of automobile accidents and some roadside sobriety check points. Blood or saliva tests can show current intoxication. However, unlike blood alcohol concentration tests, they do not indicate a level of intoxication or impairment.
On the other hand, urine tests for marijuana metabolites can only show recent marijuana use, not intoxication or impairment, because of the time required between smoking and the metabolites being eliminated in the urine. However, because many employers have a zero tolerance for drug use, most workplaces use urine tests for any recent use of drugs.

How Long Can Marijuana Be Detected?

Some THC metabolites have an elimination half-life of 20 hours. However, some are stored in body fat and have a elimination half-life of 10 to 13 days. Most researchers agree that urine tests for marijuana can detect the presence of the drug in the body for up to 13 days.
However, there is anecdotal evidence that the length of time that marijuana remains in the body is affected by how often the person smokes, how much he smokes and how long he has been smoking. Regular smokers have reported positive drug test results after 45 days since last use and heavy smokers have reported positive tests 90 days after quitting.
Thomas
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 04:09 pm
@revelette,
revelette wrote:
Well, maybe, but the reason he changed his mind, seems to be not clear enough to be able to take what says with any credibility. We don't know why he changed his mind,

The autopsist changed his mind after reading scientific papers and talking to expert biologists about the effect of THC on a user of Martin's size and weight. He named his sources in his testimony. So yes, we do know what changed his mind.

revelette wrote:
So it has not been established Trayvon Martin smoked the night in question.

I agree. But that's irrelevant because the defense doesn't need to establish it. The prosecution has to refute it as a reasonable hypothesis about Zimmerman's motivation. And if Martin's THC level may or may not have had an effect on him that night, it remains a reasonable hypothesis that that's what made him suspicious to Zimmerman.
revelette
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 04:12 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I know, I already checked it out before posting. Here is what I found.

Quote:
How Long Does Marijuana Stay In Your System?

The effects of cannabis may fade quickly after ingestion, but its active ingredient, tetrahydrocannabinol, can remain and be detected in the body for weeks, and maybe even longer. This shall depend on how the substance is metabolized.

Some tetrahydrocannabinol metabolites have an elimination half life of 20 hours, while others are stored in body fat and have elimination half lives of 10 to 13 days. Half lives may be influenced by how heavy the person weighs, how often he uses the drug, how much he consumes, and how long has he used it. [18]

Retention time of orally ingested marijuana ranges from 1 to 5 days. [19] Occasional smokers can take cannabis out of their system within just a few days. For regular heavy smokers, it will take 2 weeks to a month before drug levels reach nil. Those chronic users, who smoke weed on a daily basis, may still have it in their bodies even 2 to 3 months after their last consumption. [20]


source


0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 04:18 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

firefly wrote:
Martin's mother is on the witness stand...


. . . and she is absolutely, positively certain that the yelling on the 911 tape came from her son. The trouble is, Zimmerman's mother and Zimmerman's uncle both stated the same thing just 30 minutes ago. All three are absolutely certain, but at least one of them is wrong. Talk about reasonable doubt!


2 are wrong
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 04:20 pm
@Thomas,
Yes but we don't know what the expert said, only that the autopsy doctor changed his mind and the trace amount could have had an effect. Not that it did have an effect, only that it could have had an effect. It was such a trace amount, I don't see how that could have made him so suspicious acting Zimmerman could tell in the dark and the rain that he was on drugs. So no, I don't think that was a reasonable hypothesis for Zimmerman to make.
BillW
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 04:22 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Rockhead wrote:

Why was Trayvon Martin suspicious?

he was black...

I believe Zimmerman said in his 911 call that Martin appeared to be on drugs. And indeed, the doctor who did the autopsy testified today that Martin had THC in his blood. (THC is the active ingredient in Cannabis.)


After the jury leaves the courtroom, Bao tells the court he believes that marijuana "could have no effect or some effect" on Martin. He cannot tell how much of an effect.

Low effect reply at most.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 04:24 pm
@revelette,
revelette wrote:

I must have turned my eyes at the wrong time, did the judge rule of the defenses motion to acquit? I figured she must have as the defense has now started their case and they are now recessed.

As just an aside, that medical guy who did the autopsy was a hoot, not a very good witness for either side or even the court in general. However, Trayvon Martin's mother was a strong witness.


4:51 p.m. ET: Judge Nelson announces that the Judgment of Acquittal motion is denied. She believes that the State has presented both direct and circumstantial evidence and that this case is going to the jury.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 04:27 pm
@BillW,
I'll repeat this for the benefit of those who missed my earlier post on marijuana.

Quote:
Limitations of Drug Tests

Because marijuana stays in the bloodstream for a short time, blood tests for marijuana are usually not used, except in the case of automobile accidents and some roadside sobriety check points. Blood or saliva tests can show current intoxication. However, unlike blood alcohol concentration tests, they do not indicate a level of intoxication or impairment.


FMPOV it's a non-issue.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 04:30 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I'm not sure who posted these odds earlier in this thread. Just repeating what I read.


Farmerman
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Fri 5 Jul, 2013 04:33 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

revelette wrote:
It was a trace amount. Also the doctor first said it shouldn't have affected him that night, then changed his mind because he consulted someone else. We don't know the information he had that made him change his mind, so I don't give a lot of credence to any of it.

That's not the point. The point is that this was one of Zimmerman's stated reasons for suspecting Martin. The actual presence of THC in Martin's blood affirms this argument of Zimmerman's up to a point. It remains a reasonable hypothesis about Zimmerman's motives other than a depraved mind. And to get Zimmerman's acquitted, a reasonable hypothesis is all that it needs to be.


This doesn't have relavence, it is a completely assine reason to commit murder, and 2 - is Zimmerman now a expert on detemining small amounts of pot is a persons system - a "reasonable hypothesis" - nada! Very weak!
 

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