The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

@BillRM,

But we do know that Zimmerman left his car and followed the victim, with his gun. Isent that confrontational?

Quote:

Is America finally looking at the real George Zimmerman?
By Juan Williams
November 20, 2013
FoxNews.com

“I told you so!”

The temptation to say just that is big after George Zimmerman’s arrest Monday on charges of aggravated assault, including pointing a gun at his girlfriend.

This week’s arrest comes on the heels of his former wife calling police to report Zimmerman had threatened her with a gun.

Four months ago a jury acquitted Zimmerman of second-degree murder and manslaughter charges in the fatal shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. There was not enough evidence to show that Zimmerman was not acting in self-defense.

But now what we are seeing is a pattern emerging showing Zimmerman as a man with serious anger issues, who lacks self-control and has a penchant for using guns to threaten people.

Taken together these recent cases open a new window on the February 2012 case when Zimmerman followed, fought, shot and killed Trayvon Martin, a black teenager walking home from the corner store with candy and a can of iced tea.

All the arguments about Zimmerman’s rights under Florida’s Stand Your Ground law and his right to defend himself in a fight with a teenager fade in light of Zimmerman’s recent behavior.

All the arguments about gun-control advocates trying to use this case to deny Americans’ their right to carry a gun have lost their relevance.

Zimmerman’s presentation of himself as a public-spirited “Neighborhood Watch” volunteer who was legitimately concerned about a strange young man in the neighborhood now looks like a cover story for a vigilante looking to excuse actions that led to the young man’s death.

It is eye-catching that Zimmerman’s girlfriend told police he had both a shotgun and an assault rifle and he initially barricaded himself inside her apartment as if primed for a shoot-out with police.

The jury in the murder case had no idea of Zimmerman’s volatile temperament. They never heard any testimony from him.

The prosecutors had little support at the time to bolster the argument that Zimmerman’s personal issues, his rage, caused him to ignore a police dispatcher’s instructions to stop following the youngster.

Not only did Zimmerman continue following him but Zimmerman got out of his car to confront the young man, fight him and fatally shoot him.

The conservative and liberal media as well as race-baiters immediately picked sides in the fight and put their own agendas on the tragedy.

On the left, critics claimed Zimmerman racially profiled the youngster as a criminal and was not charged by police because of indifference to the death of a young black person.

On the right, commentators said Zimmerman had every right to carry his gun and even without the Stand Your Ground law he was within his right to shoot Martin because the young man may have been beating him up.

Polls also show a racial divide with a majority of black Americans alarmed at an unarmed child being killed while a majority of white Americans took Zimmerman’s side. A Washington Post/ABC News poll found 86 percent of blacks disagreed with the verdict while 51 percent of whites approved of the acquittal.

There was an even split among all Americans as to Zimmerman’s guilt.

Forty-one percent of Americans polled by Washington Post/ABC News believed Zimmerman should have been found guilty of something and another 41 percent said he should not have been convicted of anything.

But now with the repeated incidents of threats involving guns by Zimmerman there has to be doubt on every side, among blacks and whites, liberals and conservatives, that reckless behavior lit the fuse that led Zimmerman to tragically kill Martin.

Now there is new power to the idea that a skinny teen-aged boy felt threatened by a man who was stalking him for no apparent reason.

Now it makes sense to think that Martin felt insulted, even challenged to fight as a natural reaction to Zimmerman’s pursuit and confrontational tone. This lends support to the idea that it was Martin who was acting in self-defense.

But don’t hold your breath waiting for gun rights advocates to discuss whether Zimmerman should have a license to carry a gun.

And don’t wait to hear the left admit that given his pattern of behavior Zimmerman was a threat to people of all colors and not only young black men who could be racially profiled.

The truth is coming out slowly. It does not fit all the political agendas imposed by the left and the right. And it can’t stop the impulse from either side to say “I Told You So.”
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/11/20/is-america-finally-looking-at-real-george-zimmerman/

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@RABEL222,

Quote:

But we do know that Zimmerman left his car and followed the victim, with his gun. Isent that confrontational?

The victim was Zimmerman...........

He have a gun with him most of the time as I do that does not mean that every time I get out of my car I am looking for a conflict of any kind.

In fact I find myself going more out of my way not to get into a conflict when I am armed.

He was calling the police to deal with the situation something he would not be doing if he wish to deal with the matter himself.

Next Zimmerman was the one beaten not Trayvon before the gun was used one time in self defense.

Trayvon was free to keep walking home instead of turning and attacking Zimmerman.

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@BillRM,

Keep supporting Zimmerman; he will undoubtedly continue his aggressive behavior until he's jailed or put into prison. I hope they do that to you too! You are a danger to society.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

I find myself going more out of my way not to get into a conflict when I am armed.

That's exactly what Zimmerman didn't do. He could have avoided any contact with Martin if he hadn't stalked him and if he had remained in his car. There was no need for him to follow Martin, the police neither needed nor wanted him to do that, and it violated neighborhood watch rules. And he never identified himself to Martin to try to defuse the situation.

Quote:

Trayvon was free to keep walking home instead of turning and attacking Zimmerman....

And Zimmerman was free to leave his girlfriend's home, and just drive away, rather than throwing her out of her own home and barricading himself inside it, after allegedly threatening her with a shotgun.

Quote:

But now what we are seeing is a pattern emerging showing Zimmerman as a man with serious anger issues, who lacks self-control and has a penchant for using guns to threaten people.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/11/20/is-america-finally-looking-at-real-george-zimmerman/

Now we are seeing the real George Zimmerman.

1 Reply

@firefly,

These yokels don't understand the simple fact that any gun at the scene can became fatal. Without the gun, it's more probable that both (or all) will remain alive.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

t's more probable that both (or all) will remain alive.

Sure with the child Trayvon pounding Zimmerman head on the sidewalk and interfering with his breathing he would not have been killed or greatly harm for life......BULLSHIT

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@cicerone imposter,

Well as there is zero proof that he done anything wrong but the words of two women he was leaving repeat he was leaving good luck on that dream. Oh add that the one loyal girlfriend was shopping her story about Zimmerman before Zimmerman try to pack and get out of the home.

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@BillRM,

You don't learn much do you? It was proven that Zimmerman's injuries were minor.

Your repeating lies and innuendos only makes you look more STUPID!

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Tt was proven that Zimmerman's injuries were minor

That wounds show who was the one doing his best to harm the other and as the one prosecutor own witness stated you do not need to wait until your attacker had done serous harm to you before you are free to act in self defense.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Tt was proven that Zimmerman's injuries were minor

That wounds show who was the one doing his best to harm the other and as the one prosecutor own witness stated you do not need to wait until your attacker had done serous harm to you before you are free to act in self defense.

and lets not forget that women are told to leave any man who hits them, the speech is not "if your man seriously hurts you then dump him". It is the aggression that we condemn. Some consistency would be nice.

besides George's story is that Travon saw the gun and George believed that travon might use the gun on him, he did not use the gun because he was taking a beating, the beating injuries are not very relevant here. under Florida law we are told to believe George unless there is evidence that he is lying, which there is not because we have no idea what happened between these two. the alleged minor injuries on George is a red herring.

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@BillRM,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Occam's Razor is one of the weakest philosophical gambits ever...and by no means
does it clear up the question of who the attacker was that night.

We do not know who initiated the physical confrontation.

BillRM wrote:

We can said nothing for 100 percent sure however the odds
of who started the conflict approach 100 percent that it was Trayvon not Zimmerman,

That 's how I see it.

We need to remember that Zimmy KNEW
that the police were approaching. He wanted them to respect him,
not to see him as a brawler, much less to SEE him committing a felony in front of them
(in common with his nabors, thereabout and at their windows)
if thay were close enuf.

David

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Well as there is zero proof that he done anything wrong but the words of two women he was leaving repeat he was leaving good luck on that dream. Oh add that the one loyal girlfriend was shopping her story about Zimmerman before Zimmerman try to pack and get out of the home.

You may be dumb enough to believe the distortions and untruths you are trying to peddle, but don't insult the intelligence of everyone else.

The police found the wacko barricaded inside his girlfriend's house--and that house contained his guns--which definitely supports her story that he threw her out of her own house. The judge found probable cause for the charges against him.

So, your comment that, "Well as there is zero proof that he done anything wrong..." is not only untrue, it's idiotic.

And both these women were trying to get him out of their lives.

His wife, who had walked out on him before he killed Martin, had just filed for divorce, and was trying to remove her property from the rental home they had shared, at a time he was not expected to be there, in order to avoid contact with him. Zimmerman, after checking the security cameras on the home through an app on his phone, thought she was taking his property, so, in a fit of anger, he went there and provoked an altercation with her father and made menacing gestures about reaching for a gun--and, according to his lawyer, who was furious at him, he did have a gun on him at that time.

The fact that Shellie and her father declined to press charges does not mean Zimmerman didn't do anything wrong. And, it was right after this incident that the Lake Mary police chief described him as being "a ticking time bomb" and "another Aurora or Sandy Hook waiting to happen."

And the girlfriend had been communicating with a reporter--without compensation--for three weeks, about the reasons she was ending the relationship, her fears of him, and why she wanted him out of her house.

And, if, on the day of his arrest, "Zimmerman try to pack and get out of the home," how come the police found him barricaded inside it, unwilling to even open the door for them. Why didn't he just take his things and leave, rather than throwing her out of her own home-after allegedly threatening her with a shotgun--if he really did want to leave?

You can't deal with the fact that we are now seeing the real George Zimmerman, and his reckless rage-fueled behaviors, that include threatening people with guns...and stalking innocent teenage kids in the dark.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
we do not know WITH PHILOSOPHICAL CERTAINTY who started the fight.

If there was five hundreds witnesses and on live TV we still could not
say with philosophical certainty who started the fight however that is
a straw man as for any normal human purposes there is little question
given everything as who started that fight.

AGREED.

David

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

You don't learn much do you? It was proven that Zimmerman's injuries were minor.

Your repeating lies and innuendos only makes you look more STUPID!

Oh I wouldn't be so hard on one's opponent, CI. It just might be the poster you're responding to is reflecting a natural born inability to reason which might be what you're witnessing by his repetitive same ole disorder. Alas! If he were to show a little creative imagination that would reflex some activity of mental awareness.

1 Reply

@Moment-in-Time,

The way I see these issues is that many people's emotions take away their ability to see things clearly. They have a choice, but prefer to control their thinking with emotion rather than what is obvious facts and evidence.

I call that STUPID.

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
His "motivation" may have been that he was in a funk
because his wife left him...and he was looking for someone upon whom
to take his anger and frustration.

Are you honestly saying that you could not come up with that...or with
any of several other possible scenarios where Zimmerman could have
initiated a physical confrontation????
Yes. I cud think of no reason for a random fist fight attack.
To my mind, the "funk" theory is not plausible. When I have felt "blue"
it has never occurred to me to start a fist fight with someone; alien idea.
I don t know anyone who acts like that; I never heard of anyone who acts like that.
To me, the idea of a random attack on martin just does not make sense,
not even if Zimmy had been drinking, which no one alleges to be the case.

David

Frank Apisa wrote:
David, because you wouldn't do something
is hardly a reason to suppose others also wouldn't.

C'mon.

This guy acts out often...and that MAY be what happened that night.

Do you disagree with my comment:

We do not know who instigated the physical confrontation that night.

The evidence (including what Zimmy described)
overwhelmingly indicates that martin was the aggressor,
but I will admit that we do not know WITH PHILOSOPHICAL CERTAINTY who started the fight.
David

NONSENSE!

You do not know with any kind of certainty at all.

There is absolutely nothing in the evidence that indicates which of the men initiated the physical confrontation.

You do not know who first laid hands on the other.

You do not know what caused any reactions.

YOU DO KNOW THAT ZIMMERMAN STALKED MARTIN BEFORE THE ENCOUNTER.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Occam's Razor is one of the weakest philosophical gambits ever...and by no means does it clear up the question of who the attacker was that night.

We do not know who initiated the physical confrontation.

We can said nothing for 100 percent sure however the odds of who started the conflict approach 100 percent that it was Trayvon not Zimmerman,

The evidence is at best, 50/50 as to who initiated the physical confrontation.

You want it to be Martin who started things...so you are asserting the odds being what you say they are.

Your reasoning is absurd.

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@Frank Apisa,

The fact that Zimmerman continue to follow Trayvon after he called the police, Zimmerman is the pursuer and attacker by default. If he stayed in his car, nothing would have happened. Since Trayvon did not commit any crime, the police would have to release him to continue his walk home.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

But most people here at A2K still think you are a reasonable poster
who thinks out his responses and always is sure to see both sides
of an issue before commenting.

Upon the basis of my years of observation,
it is my opinion that "most people here at A2K" (and on Abuzz)
judge other posters not on the basis of good sportsmanship
nor of accuracy and rational judgment, but rather of partizanship;
who's ideological team that poster is on. I 've wished for some years now
that posters on both the authoritarian side and the pro-freedom side
were less ad hominem in their respective posted analyses.

David

1 Reply

The State of Florida vs George Zimmerman: The Trial

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