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Europe's Old Disease Returns

 
 
dlowan
 
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Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2004 06:09 am
Irrespective of how bad anti-catholicism was, Setanta, the Brits were still anti-semitic - and, while Mary Tudor reigned, she turned the tables on the Protestants.

I never said christians did not delight to torment each other - this being one of the first things the puritans did with their religious freedom in their new American paradise.

I stand by my comment that anti-semitism is not something the likes of Au can happily consign to those nasty Europeans as though it does not exist in the new world.
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dlowan
 
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Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2004 06:11 am
And Bloody Mary tortured Protestants.

I have no idea why you try to make comments about anti-semitism imply that I believe this was the only prejudice!!!!! Please! But I shall not be further arguing with you about this on a thread not devoted to christian outrages perpetrated upon other christians.
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Setanta
 
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Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2004 06:20 am
Your final statement is reasonable, and yes, i should not have made that gaffe about Mary Tudor, as it was her father who carved up the Catholic properties and passed it out to Commoners whom he wished to tie to his dynasty. However, i cannot for a moment consider anti-semitism in the English-speaking world to be an inherited evil, and would suggest that in fact, it was manufactured in the United States long after the foundation of the republic. As late in our history as the American civil war, there were general orders issued in armies of both the North and South to give notice to Jews that they would be required to stand their watches during their holidays, and that the same would be required of the christian soldiers. This is strong inferential evidence that large numbers of Jews served for both sides--and there is a lot of other documentary evidence that this is the case. The rise of virulent anti-semitism appears in the United States at the close of the 19th century. A powerful grass-roots racist, Protestant and anti-Catholic, anti-semitic movement started then, and these people were known as and described themselves as the "Lily Whites." This corresponds to a time of significant eastern European immigration in the United States, which saw a heavy influx of Jews. This was evident among not only members of the racist community of the South--anti-Catholic and anti-semitic opinions were quite popular in New York as well, and the political cartoonist Thomas Nast, who is considered by many to be a "hero" of our nation's history for his attacks on the Tammany Hall political machine, was motivated more by the Irish and Catholic connections of Tammany Hall. A great many of his cartoons in New York newspapers suggest a threat from Catholicism, and a great many were directed at eastern European immigrants.

I object to your statements about anti-semitism in the English-speaking world as being too pat and facile.
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au1929
 
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Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2004 07:35 am
dlowan
I never said that anti-Semitism was restricted to Europe. It is alive and well in the US and Canada and any other nation where the immigrants from Europe brought the disease. However, the post was addressing Anti-Semitism in Europe and that is what I addressed my remarks to.
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