Art Appraising and it's Lunacy

I have checked Nouvelles Images web site and emailed them several times. They are a large publishing firm in France but there customer service sucks as they have never responded. I was hoping with the old area code that would help put a date on it as I haven't seen the same code on on other works. I have never seen or heard of that particular work being reproduced so it should be very limited.

It's titled Le Cygne signed in the plate H. Matisse 1953 and the info on back is exactly as I stated. It's definately serigraph/silkscreen done in the 1950's with the original frame as there was handwriting M 16 with dimensions underneath the backing 15 1/2 X 18 1/2.

They had ties to matisse or his Family and I'm sure I read they have some of his works on display maybe a mural or something along those lines.

The most logical explanation I have heard so far is the family(Son) authorized some very limited editions through Nouvelles Images a few years after his death.

I would be interested just to see any sort of reporduction for this particular work as I haven't found one yet in any shape or form.

Good research and I have found by my experience that the publishers aren't too fond of customer inquiries from the general public. They protect their dealers. Anyway, good luck. I don't mean so sound like the Simon Cowell of A2K in delivering the unvarnished truth about the eccentricities and downright fraud of a lot of art dealers but unfortunatly I've been in the industry long enough to know.

I did check out their site and it looks to me like they produce images for decor, muich like New York Graphic Society in the US (although I did own a Paul Jenkins from that company many years ago which was screened, hand-signed and numbered). I don't recall if I asked if these were hand-signed and numbered.

In the US, a screened, lithographed, computer generated or other process that is signed and numbered by the artist is still a reproduction. The artist did not produce the print, making the plates and hand pulling the print. This places the value in that cloudy air of scarcity and some of the dubious marketing technique in the U.S. to hype the value of a work.

I would think the signature was part of the silkscreening/serigraph process
as this work has no borders. It's all black with the Le Cygne image in a lighter green. The signature is in white overtop of the black and says H. Matisee 53 on the bottom right.

If attachments were alowed I would post a pic, I administrate a few rather large discussion Forums and this site could limit attachments to jpeg/bmp and size restictions for security and bandwidth concerns.

I can post my email if your interested in seeing a pic.

Thanks for all your input as I really appreciate your responses.

This is why I'm not to fond of prints and reproductions, originals are enough work especially with unsigned or hard to identify signatures.


I recently picked up a couple of original 1956 pastels done by Alf Cordero
in 1956. Although they have value they would be sure to be worth alot more had he not died in NY two weeks after arriving from Trinidad.

Searching back in my memory, I've seen these before. Calder is also on the list of artists who authorized "signed in the plate" art.

The timing of an artist's death is often troublesome, especially if the marketing technique has been, shall I say, overzealous and without a lot of real substance.

A company which is a high end consignment store in a prestigious location in Newport Beach has used me as a consultant for years. They had some of these show up and asked me about pricing. They were priced, framed at $250.00.

They are aimed at a decorator market and should be enjoyed just like you would enjoy a nice poster. Their instrinsic value in not being hand-signed and without the artist actually making the plates and pulling the prints is very little.

Thank you

wiz-did picasso sign blank sheets like Dali with the printing added later?

Not to my knowledge, farmerman. However, there are a lot of fake Picasso prints out there with forged signatures.

By any chance has anyone ever heard of RP Phillimore and his art work?

Welcoem to A2K, Marcia. No but have your tried a Google search? The annual Art in America guide is also a valuable source and you can find that at your local library or, I believe, on line.

Catalogue Raisonne'
I hate to interrupt your frenzied search for information but you should know some facts. You have purchased a fake. you can verify this by checking the standard reference (Catalogue Raisonne'} of the most heavily documented artist in the world.
It is by Georges Bloch/Alan Wofsey; The graphic work of Pablo Picasso. It can be found in any major library in New York or Philadelphia, also at major State or University Libraries. If it is not in there it is a fake. If it seems to be in there but is not line for line, dot for dot and or color for color exact, then it is a fake. All major print artists have such catalogues which should be available from the same sources.

Scum bag dealers and auctioneers know this and would not offer an original without belaboring the fact to a potential buyer to the point of inducing stupor. Too bad I can't get the same money for this advice that you paid the thief.

I cant understand your reasoning geo4u22. If youve read the posts we havent been shown or given the work other than that its a litho of guernica. Even though picassos lithos began in the late 40s, there is no reason why such work couldnt be produced later. Noone has come out with "its a fake" WITHOUT EVEN SEEING THE WORK.
Your style of appraisal is unusual to say the least


ps -edited for spelling-did not mean 'dork", meant "work" in first sentence

You're ranting about something that was covered before. Welcome to A2K, but I would suggest one reads the entire forum before commenting.
It's doubful that any dealer or auction house would offer anything like this as an original these days as it's a sure ticket to a federal prison. It's more likely that the buyer paid very little for it and thought perhaps the auction house didn't know what they were selling. Very unlikely, especially if they offer no documentation. I know auctioneers can get carried away with their spiel but caveat emptor.

The point is that art collectors who know what they are bidding on study the art thoroughly or usually can afford an expert's opinion (many collectors will bring someone who can authenticate a work with them). The practice of selling something at auction with no authentication is not unsual but may collectors demand a rider that allows them to later authenticate the work and be refunded their money if it turns out to be a fake.

I have forgotten more about art than you will ever know. So please don't take my advice.

Really, have you forgotten more about art than Lightwizard will ever know? Tell us about it!

I could reply with a list of credentials but I'm not applying for a job here -- that kind of self-satisfying reply is not worth even this reponse.

"I recently aquired a Picasso Lithograph and have been trying to find out information on its origin so I can perhaps appraise it or sell it...but i'm being led to believe that either all these people who say they know something, really know nothing..or they know something..and they just refuse to let anyone else in on it....
In a way I feel like someone cut the lights out on me and I'm left wandering aimlessly in the dark with a painting that may or may not be my salvation...and alot of these dealer/appraisers/experts that I've talked to over the last few weeks don't seem to have any straight answers..or even a flipp'n match to guide me towards the light...I've gotten nowhere in 3 three weeks and I guess my biggest problem is..what now? what can i do with this painting? do I leave it in an attic so it collects dust and insects? or do i actually pay hundred's of dollars to an appraiser so they can actually give me a straight answer? Any suggestions?"




In response to the original poster I gave the appropriate answer. No Fine Art Dealer or Auction House is going to waste their time trying to explain to someone why what they have purchased is a valueless photomechanical reproduction. They get several of these thankless calls per day from people who won't even try to educate themselves with research at a local library.

I am surprised that a person with credentials would not have purveyed this same information to someone seeking their "Salvation" living in a State neighboring the Art Capital of the World.

If you'd bother to read the thread, you'd see that he was basically given the same answer. Living adjacent to NYC doesn't mean someone is schooled in the arts -- it doesn't magically rub off from state to state. In other words, you're redundant. That makes it appear like you are on the site in this dicussion just to rub it in and I'm sure the poster has already figured out what he has purchased (and I doubt he paid very much for it which was also covered).

The purpose of noting where the poster is located is to point out that the source material I cited is readily available to him in his area, certainly within 1 hours drive. I also pointed to a clear course of action for the poster to take to try and do the preliminary research in authenticating the items he purchased so that he may learn something. That not withstanding here are the originals:





Etude III, pencil on blue paper, 210mm X 268mm, numbered III & dated 1 Mai 1937

Etude(Study)IV, pencil & oil on plywood, 537mm X 647mm unsigned, executed May 1, 1937


If what you have look like these then you have a commercial photomechanical reproduction. If they don't look like these then you have either supplied erroneous information or they are fraudulent.

You now have a professional opinion.

Getting money back from auction house for Picasso Lithograph
Hello all: If someone could please give me some insight into my dilemna, I would very much appreciate it...
I purchased a Picasso lithograph at a NYC auction house 2 days ago. The Certificate of Authenticity claims it is the "tete de femme au profil" limited edition 150, ex. 115 published in 1970, but I came across a webiste that is selling the lithograph under a different name AND a later publication date (1979 - posthumous). That website is: http://art.goantiques.com/detail,pablo-picasso-estate,554061.html.

The lithograph I purchased has a signature "by" Picasso. But of course if the lithograph was actually published in 1979, it must be a fake signature, correct?

The certificate of authenticity on the back is signed by an art gallery, who I have been unable to get in contact with. I have been trying quite desperately to determine its value by perusing art websites online. The one website referenced above is selling the Picasso lithograph for $2900; i paid $15,000 at the auction.

I want to return the art to the auction house and get my money back on the painting, for the reason that I don't believe the Picasso signature is real. I would appreciate some advice as to how to approach the auction house, and whether I should contact the NY authorities.

In addition, I am trying to accumulate as much facts as I can to build my case - could someone please recommend a book, website or other source from which I can obtain facts about this particular Picasso lithograph and thus show that the Certificate of Authenticity is false?

THANK YOU!