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Is this justice for Kenya or is it too late?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jun, 2013 05:07 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
I would personally say that reparations that are paid to ANYBODY may just be being paid for spreading a better international image.


Then again, you're incapable of seeing the good in anyone.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jun, 2013 05:12 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Foofie wrote:
I would personally say that reparations that are paid to ANYBODY may just be being paid for spreading a better international image.


Then again, you're incapable of seeing the good in anyone.


Just being realistic My Lordship. Read Lord of the Flies. Friar Tuck had a caring heart in my opinion. Not many Friar Tucks in the world.
Arjunakki
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Jun, 2013 06:02 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
in my opinion, the German reparations to families of Holocaust survivors was not done because Germans became philo-Semitic [Foofie made a joke], but because Germany wanted to whitewash their image from the Nazi era.


It was more than a mere whitewashing of the German national image. The world made the Germans face the monumental crime against humanity symbolized by the Holocaust. Banks owned by Jews were taken over by Aryans, beautiful homes, valuable Jewish paintings confiscated, and lastly the unholy toll in human lives. The surviving Jews knew their property had been taken and sued to get same back. Most surviving Jews of the Holocaust are probably gone by now, but they received a pension from Germany until they died. During war, nations often will do things they will later be ashamed of, but there is nothing in my opinion that will ever whitewash the stain of the Holocaust from WW2. All one can attest to is the truth that man has lots of maturing to do before he can truly say he is NOT the most dangerous ANIMAL on earth.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jun, 2013 01:24 am
@Foofie,
Being extremely cynical is not the same thing as being realistic. Your choice of Lord Of The Flies as a general comment on human nature says a lot about you.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jun, 2013 03:57 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
For example, in my opinion, the German reparations to families of Holocaust survivors was not done because Germans became philo-Semitic [Foofie made a joke], but because Germany wanted to whitewash their image from the Nazi era.
What reparations were paid by Germany to families of Holocaust survivors?

Did we want to whitewash our image? Might be so. I doubt that.
But what are reparations generally in your opinion?
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jun, 2013 09:50 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Did we want to whitewash our image? Might be so. I doubt that.
But what are reparations generally in your opinion?


Why would you "doubt" the desire to whitewash Germany's post WWII image? It is, in my opinion, the litmus test, and a compliment, as to whether the leopard can really change its spots, so to speak, after two world wars, where Germany was the belligerent.

If Germany did not want to "whitewash" its image, then one could make an argument that Germany had little, if any, remorse for its effecting the Holocaust (aka, Final Solution). In effect, then with no desire to "whitewash" its image, one might think that all that Germany did wrong, in its opinion, was lose WWII!

You see, the term "whitewash" is really a compliment to Germany; however, in its usual usage it might connote a self-serving ulterior motive. So, it could have both meanings. Now I am broaching the possible difference of the German mind and the American mind. In my opinion, German thinking has "vinners" and "losers." Not so in the American way of thinking. Perhaps, like Brits, we have a greater "toleration for ambiguity." (Like loving democracy, and loving their Monarchy.)

Check-mate.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jun, 2013 09:51 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Being extremely cynical is not the same thing as being realistic. Your choice of Lord Of The Flies as a general comment on human nature says a lot about you.


Well Watson, I never professed to have your concerns for mankind.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Jun, 2013 10:04 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
Perhaps, like Brits, we have a greater "toleration for ambiguity." (Like loving democracy, and loving their Monarchy.)


Jesse Owens would disagree.

"Hitler had a certain time to come to the stadium and a certain time to leave. It happened he had to leave before the victory ceremony after the 100 meters. But before he left I was on my way to a broadcast and passed near his box. He waved at me and I waved back. I think it was bad taste to criticize the 'man of the hour' in another country."

"Hitler didn't snub me – it was FDR who snubbed me. The president didn't even send me a telegram."
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Jun, 2013 10:11 am
@Foofie,
Since you aren't interested in European history and politics, it's understandable that you don't know a lot about those reparations.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Jun, 2013 11:12 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I admit that the term "whitewash" disturbs me. We use a different word vor it, namely "Wiedergutmachung"
Quote:
The German word Wiedergutmachung after World War II refers to the reparations that the German government agreed to pay in 1953 to the direct survivors of the Holocaust, and to those who were made to work as forced labour or who otherwise became victims of the Nazis.
(from wikipedia)

The WWII-reparations, a different issue, were settled in 1990 (effective in 1991) with the Treaty on the Final Settlement With Respect to Germany .... having started with the Potsdam Conference.

Foofie wrote:
For example, in my opinion, the German reparations to families of Holocaust survivors ...
To what did you refer here?
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jun, 2013 05:21 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foofie wrote:
For example, in my opinion, the German reparations to families of Holocaust survivors ...
To what did you refer here?


I am mistaken? The reparations were only to survivors? Fine.

If the word "whitewash" seems inappropriate then perhaps one does not give credence to how many Europeans, or others, do believe that Germany did relish the war when they were winning, early on. That might call for an effort to change that opinion?

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Jun, 2013 04:12 pm
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

Realistically though, when does it end. What piece of land is devoid of bloodshed or hurt?


Excellent point.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Jun, 2013 04:43 pm
Will there be some sort of adjustment in the compensation for the atrocities committed by the Mau Maus?

Has the Mau Mau Original Group compensated the Kikuyu for the Lari Massacre in particular and genocide in general? How about what may remain of the Ruck family?

Clearly the Mau Maus weren't up to the task of ridding Kenya of Brits or exterminating the tribe that was perceived to be their lap dogs, and so it's no wonder that the number of Mau Mau victims of British atrocities is far greater than those of British and Asian victims of Mau Mau atrocities, but it wasn't for want of trying on the part of the Mau Maus.

If a nation can compensate the actual victims of a national policy which it (or more precisely a majority of its people) has come to regret, I think it should and it does represent, to some extent at least, a leveling of the scales.

However, personally I wouldn't pay the surviving Mau Mau victims a dime unless they could persuade me that they weren't all for Mau Mau atrocities.

I somehow doubt I would see much of a drop in my bank account.

If Brits seriously regret their colonial past and wish to atone for its perceived evils, they have better ways to do so than paying money to Mau Maus.

They should, I would suggest, consider though that their influence on their colonies was not all evil.

Obama's own half-brother believes his country was better off when the Brits were in control, and just the other night while watching Anthony Bourdaine's CNN travelogue on the Congo, I heard one Congolese activist make the comment that his country was better off under the Belgians.










0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Jun, 2013 05:00 pm
@Foofie,

izzythepush wrote:

Foofie wrote:
I would personally say that reparations that are paid to ANYBODY may just be being paid for spreading a better international image.


Then again, you're incapable of seeing the good in anyone.
Foofie wrote:

Just being realistic My Lordship. Read Lord of the Flies.
Friar Tuck had a caring heart in my opinion. Not many Friar Tucks in the world.
He had a caring stomach, too.
0 Replies
 
 

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