Did Jesus Actually Exist?

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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Creationism explains subjectivity = objectivity...

Evolution explains nothing = subjectivity/objectivity..

LOL waving you hands in the air and claiming some supernatural being created life explain nothing at all except that humans can created fantasies out of thin air.

Hell as a small child I was able to see the logical hole in that thinking as if you have a need to have a designer/builder to created life then you would need a far more powerful being behind the first builder/god to had bring him or her or it into existence.

A never ending serial of ever more powerful gods creating the lesser gods who in the end did the small job of creating humans and other animal life on earth.

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@izzythepush,

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The difference between the NT and Moslem sources about Mohammed is time. The Moslem sources other than the Koran are far closer time wise to Mohammed than the NT is to Jesus. The Gospel according to Mark was written about 7o AD, and that's the earliest.

The Gospels are not the earliest NT books. The Acts are usually dated around 60-65 because they do not mention the death of Paul or the destruction of the temple. Paul's letters are dated 51 to 55. That's about 20 years after the death of Jesus... In contrast, the earliest surviving biography of Mo (sira) dates from a hundreds years after his death.

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@Olivier5,

You got it mate...Was thinking about that as you said so...and was on my way back...myself...

I wanted to see your faith in Jesus...nothing more or less...I would not say I was not being straight forward...because the Lord also says to test everything...test one another...I think it is a huge part in being prudent...

I believe that Jesus is a savior because he can do what no one else can...

I believe he has risen from the dead...and destroyed death...

I believe he was the first to be reborn...and I believe he will be the last to ever be...

I have been up for quite some time...forgive me if I reply after I sleep for a few...I have tested the faith to see...I gave you my replies...I have asked you some questions...and I will reply when I come here later...Enjoy your day! Was a pleasure...

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

Very clearly, I don't believe in god and mythology, but I think there's a lot of evidence backing the idea of a guy called Jesus preaching and teaching important stuff, and ending up on a cross.

That however does not mean Jesus did not "save" anyone. IMO his message is very powerful and helped a lot of people, including me. I would go as far as finding in his message one of the roots of humanism and of the idea of human rights.

What do you think a "savior" would be? From your above...Why would you say that Jesus did not necessarily save you? What do you think a savior would do? What would a savior have to do for you to consider him a "savior"? How would you say that you know that Jesus had not done it?

After I hear your own answers to my questions...

I will explain how I think Jesus is a savior for what he has done for me...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Quote:

Quote:
That however does not mean Jesus did not "save" anyone. IMO his message is very powerful and helped a lot of people, including me. I would go as far as finding in his message one of the roots of humanism and of the idea of human rights.
(empasis added)

What do you think a "savior" would be? From your above...Why would you say that Jesus did not necessarily save you?

Re-read what I wrote. I don't use the term "save" much because that begs the question: saved from what? But I do think Jesus' message HELPED me.

Your turn now.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

You mean he saved us from death?

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

I'm reminding you not to pull that "believe or reject" bullshit on me, because i won't play your stupid games, i won't be bullied into discussing subjects in your terms. You don't get to dictate to other people the terms of discussion. I didn't say you are a bully--you're not slick enough for that. But you would be if you could. How many times have you told me to leave? How many times have you attempted to give me orders? If you deny that, then you're a liar as well as would-be bully.

Who is this "they" of whom you speak? Is that just your cowardly way of accusing me of something, but attempting to give yourself deniability? You truly are pathetic.

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

Your turn now.

I believe that Jesus is a savior because he can do what no one else can...

I believe he has risen from the dead...and destroyed death...

I believe he was the first to be reborn...and I believe he will be the last to ever be...

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

No...everyone must die...and take up their own cross...

I believe he is the one who made it possible for us to eventually be in eternal peace...

I don't think we ever rest...If he does not come down and destroy eternal death...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

What i allegedly would like you to do neither? You should take English classes in night school, because your language skills suck.

I haven't told you to do anything, dimwit. If, however, you make claims about your boy Jesus or about a savior, and you can't back it up, you can't expect to be taken seriously by anyone who doesn't share your delusions. I think you should try to live with that and stop telling people to disprove the bullshit you spread.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

No...everyone must die...and take up their own cross...

What about these folks, " . . . the ones that come out of the great tribulation . . ."? (Revelation 7:14)

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@Olivier5,

Eternal death = not having the conscious ability to know the things we have personally done wrong...and living them off in order to be free, and clean and one with God the Father...

Eternal peace...Living off the sins we have committed, till we truly repent from all evilness...and constantly expanding forever and ever till we go beyond this universe and many many more...and are actually one with God...

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@izzythepush,

That's gotta be it!

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@neologist,

It is 24 Saints chosen to watch each one of the 24 time zones on Earth...

The white robes mean Christ-like...

The crown means worthy of eternal life...

The Lambs blood means they have died for their sins...and have suffered for others transgressions...

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Nice Neo . . . jump in there the obsessive Saxon who never misses an opportunity to sneer at me, and who loves nothing better than to make completely false accusations against me. I'm sure you and he will be good buddies.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

Eternal death = not having the conscious ability to know the things we have personally done wrong...and living them off in order to be free, and clean and one with God the Father...

Eternal peace...Living off the sins we have committed, till we truly repent from all evilness...and constantly expanding forever and ever till we go beyond this universe and many many more...and are actually one with God...

When you take terms that do not appear in scripture and attempt to define them metaphysically, you create a vortex of confusion that may swallow you whole.

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@Setanta,

Aww, heck, Set. I well know you are more than able to defend yourself.
Have another sip of coffee, sir.

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@neologist,

I appreciate the concern...If that is how you honestly feel then I would ask that you pry for me...and I will do likewise for you...if 2 or more pry it shall be done...and a cord of 3 is not easily broken...So I will ask an anonymous believer to pry with us...

God's words go well beyond what the Bible strictly says...and Frankly, I will be honest and say that I believe I have gone beyond that...

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@Olivier5,

Ooops, that Talmud quote was in fact from the tractate Baba Mezi'a, 49a. Not that anyone cares but I should know better than taking internet talmud quotes for granted and out of context.

http://halakhah.com/rst/nezikin/32b%20-%20Baba%20Metziah%20-%2028b-58a.pdf
(p.72, left column, bottom of page)

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@neologist,

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When you take terms that do not appear in scripture and attempt to define them metaphysically, you create a vortex of confusion that may swallow you whole.

I am not confused about what I have just said above...but if there is something you did not understand...I will explain it for you if you would like me to do so...

If you do not have any interest...then that is cool as well...

1 Reply

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