Did Jesus Actually Exist?

@BillRM,

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Unlike Jesus there is plenty of proof that Mohammad was a real person.

Like what?

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@reasoning logic,

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I had not made that claim but rather shared with Olivier historical writings.

Didn't see. You got a link?

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@Olivier5,

research Philo of Alexandria.

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@BillRM,

That is because he is the ONLY one who was God, or a messenger from above...

Not that he did not exist, because if there is no proof of his existence...then there is none that he did not...

Your "real" boy Mohammad validates this when he claims he is a messenger of the same God Jesus was...While you claim that Mohammed was real...

That means that either Mohammed did not exist, since Jesus did not...or Jesus had...just like Mohammed had...

Their messages were just totally different...

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@reasoning logic,

Oh that ALLEDGED Egyptian Jewish sect? We have no other record of them than a few sentences in a text attributed to Philo... They never wrote about anything, as far as we can tell.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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Their messages were just totally different...

Does this mean that one of them was not of the one and only true god and not which one was not?

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@Olivier5,

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Oh that egyptian jewish sect? We have no other record of them than a few sentences in a text attributed to Philo... They never wrote about anything, as far as we can tell.

Are you now discrediting what Josephus had to say about them?

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@reasoning logic,

I am not aware of any mention of them by Josephus.

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@reasoning logic,

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Does this mean that one of them was not of the one and only true god and not which one was not?

Mohammed was not...Mohammed claimed that Jesus was a prophet of the Jews, and Mohammed was one for the World...but Mohammed did not say he was one of the Jews, and for the World...

You can not be a prophet for the World, if you are not a prophet of the Jews...

Of Course the Qu'ran does not make this claim...because it also claims it is not altered or can not be changed...

But since it makes the claim that Judaism, and Christianity are from the same Divine authority, and are apart of the "Abrahamic God" and that the Torah and Bible scriptures have errors...these other 2 religious scriptures provide the errors within the Qu'ran itself...How could the same divine God make errors in 2 others scriptures? But not the Qu'ran, if it is the same God? If there are none in the Qu'ran, is there any reason to believe there are any in either of the other 2 scriptures? No, of course not...If it is the same God...and he had made errors in 2 other scriptures, why would he not make the same in another one of his scriptures? If he had not in one, why would he in another? He would not do so...

And it is worse for Islam, because they claim this is true...but claim it also is not, and can not be changed...When NOTHING can bind God...Certainly not a book of any kind...

Bring a Muslim before me, and have them proclaim how the Qu'ran can not be altered, and I will gently ask them to point out to me where Mohammed had said that there was a 6th Pillar called a "Jihad"

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@reasoning logic,

BTW mate...I was going to refrain...but it makes my bones quake not to speak....

If you do not know whether you would or would not want a bat rammed up your ass...then it is on you to understand why you would or would not...It is not on me to try to explain why or why not universally...although, I imagine a few nutters out there would take their precious time to explain how they think I could or should for them...

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@Olivier5,

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Very clearly, I don't believe in god and mythology, but I think there's a lot of evidence backing the idea of a guy called Jesus preaching and teaching important stuff, and ending up on a cross.

That however does not mean Jesus did not "save" anyone. IMO his message is very powerful and helped a lot of people, including me. I would go as far as finding in his message one of the roots of humanism and of the idea of human rights.

I think that that is a great way to view Jesus Christ...if that is what you personally think he was...

You have no need to be convinced he was a savior, or provided proof he was not...Since you already know what you do think...And explain who you actually are...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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Your "real" boy Mohammad validates this when he claims he is a messenger of the same God Jesus was...While you claim that Mohammed was real...T

Are you kidding me as a lot of real religious leaders over history had claimed that they are tied into the teaching of a Jesus and the Christian god and none of the claims have anything to do with whether such a person as Jesus existed or not!!!!!!

Mohammed bring a real person grant no proof that Jesus was a real living person no matter what his opinions of Jesus and Jesus alleged teachings happen to had been.

Mohammed had no more supernatural knowledge of what happen a thousand years before his birth then anyone else happen to.

Mohammed existing does not mean that his claims to be a messenger of some god have any credibility any more then the Mormon leader/founder Joseph Smith happen to have or thousands of others for that matter over thousands of years.

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@BillRM,

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Are you kidding me as a lot of real religious leaders over history had claimed that they are tied into the teaching of a Jesus and the Christian god and none of the claims have anything to do with whether such a person as Jesus existed or not!!!!!!

Says you...Of course...and only you in that exact way...no universal evidence at all...

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Mohammed bring a real person grant no proof that Jesus was a real living person no matter what his opinions of Jesus and Jesus alleged teachings happen to had been.

Says you...Of course...and only you in the exact way...no universal evidence at all...

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Mohammed had no more supernatural knowledge of what happen a thousand years before his birth then anyone else happen to.

Says you...Of course...and only you in that exact way...no universal evidence at all...

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Mohammed existing does not mean that his claims to be a messenger of some god have any credibility.

Says you...Of course...and only you in that exact way...no universal evidence at all...

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Are you kidding me as a lot of real religious leaders over history had claimed that they are tied into the teaching of a Jesus and the Christian god and none of the claims have anything to do with whether such a person as Jesus existed or not!!!!!!

My personal subjective opinions...If they had made this claim...then they believed it was truthful...whether it is or is not...it is not your prerogative to try to explain how you think it is truthful or is not...One, since you do not believe them, and will be bias...and two, It would not be up to you to decide if it was truthful or not...If Jesus did exist, then it must have been truthful...If Jesus never had...then it never is, or was not truthful for these people to make these claims...there is no such middle differential ground to speculate...the very fact we are...says they were right..."prove" me wrong if you can...No...I am not kidding...

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Mohammed bring a real person grant no proof that Jesus was a real living person no matter what his opinions of Jesus and Jesus alleged teachings happen to had been.

Mohammed, being real, and existing, and claiming he was real and had existed, just like Jesus Christ is said to have, by Mohammed...in Mohammed own words...is in fact the same thing as saying that Jesus Christ was real and had existed...in a real way...now, whether you do not believe that this is so...Would require you to investigate if Mohammed was so...Whether Mohammed and Jesus were here for the same 2 reasons or were not...Is subjective...

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Mohammed had no more supernatural knowledge of what happen a thousand years before his birth then anyone else happen to.

Mohammed preached otherwise...Which means in order for you to think he was real means you must subjectivity think he existed...and for you to then subjectively think he had no supernatural powers...means you subjectively think he did not...which means it does not mean that you are correct, or incorrect...Or it is proof...you just think you are correct, like everyone else...Which no one knows but God...Or no one ever will...How could that be demonstrated factually?

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Mohammed existing does not mean that his claims to be a messenger of some god have any credibility.

You are incorrect...whether he was correct or was not...It does not matter, for the time being...If he existed, and claimed it was because of a God...then that gives us more proof that he was...then he actually was not...Even if others subjectively think he was wrong, or do not agree with him...

More people in the World say they come from God for an innate purpose = more demonstrated proof that we have...Creationism...then we came from nothing, and evolution...

I am sorry if you do not personally, subjectively, agree with those facts...but it is what it is...and that is what you get when you insult God and demand "facts" from God...

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

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If someone has a subjective opinion it is their opinion even if it was influenced by sociological currents.
Even tho we are all subjected to these currents none of us agree on all issues, That is why I say we all live in our own world.

Thank you...this is all I needed to hear you say...everything is subjective...(beliefs, rejections, doubts) nothing is universal...(God, proof, evidence)

The true nature of REALITY IS OBJECTIVE.

What IS....IS.

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@Frank Apisa,

And you happen to be CERTAIN about this because?

I only ask, because I am interested since you have claimed you are unsure about several different topics...

Can you explain what makes you sure? Apposed to unsure? Or would you say it is not possible for you to quantify? IE...Unsure if you are sure...

I will clarify...I actually happen to agree with your premise none the less...

I actually meant that all of our own subjective interpretations of everything, and the universe and everything that is and will be...Or God or this motivating force = an objective God or Force...or existence, universe...multi, multi, multi-verse...ultimate reality...that we end up being reciprocated in return...

Are you simply going much simpler, and saying that none of my above has to be...and everything that is, simply just is? Well sure...But I happen to believe that even an objective reality could not exist without subjectivity...

Do you think you can you explain how you think it could?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Hey Bill, don't forget that one:

Re: BillRM (Post 5350242)
Quote:
Unlike Jesus there is plenty of proof that Mohammad was a real person.

Like what?

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@Frank Apisa,

Creationism explains subjectivity = objectivity...

Evolution explains nothing = subjectivity/objectivity...

You are saying that objectivity = objectivity...not from nothing, nor subjectivity?

Interesting...How so?

Is there a subjectivity = subjectivity?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

. To assume Jesus never existed requires a larger conspiration theory than I can stomack.

It's not about conspiracy, there was a tradition of using myth to explain various aspects of life. Jesus fitted in with that mythology, Pagans had been worshipping a form of Jesus for a long time prior to the events in the Gospels. It's feasible that later Christians took that myth literally.

Having said that, on the subject of whether or not Jesus physically existed, I remain agnostic.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
Unlike Jesus there is plenty of proof that Mohammad was a real person.

Like what?

Well there's his grave for a start.

http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.com/tabarruk/rauza.jpg

1 Reply

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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I think that that is a great way to view Jesus Christ...if that is what you personally think he was...

well, not Jesus CHRIST mind you, since 'Christ' means annointed aka messiah. He's just Jesus for me.

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You have no need to be convinced he was a savior, or provided proof he was not...

Savior from what exactly?

2 Replies

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