Did Jesus Actually Exist?

@Setanta,

Quote:

"I can run wild for six months … after that, I have no expectation of success"

Exactly. You're proving the point, not disproving it. Yamamoto KNEW Japan would lose an extended war. But, not if the effete Yanks caved in quickly and sued for peace after a few setbacks, eh? And what, apart from setbacks, else would you expect to happen to a country-club of golfers and bridge players?

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@layman,

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@Krumple,

Quote:

Now you are conflating my argument. The sources you are referring to are the ones that came about 40+ years AFTER the events supposed to have taken place. I am talking about writers who should have written DURING the events or shortly there after. They don't exist.

You don't know that for a fact, as I have already explained to you. What we know is that the only sources that were passed on to us are dated to 40+ years after his death. Nobody knows who wrote what before that time. Books can be lost. In actual fact, a few gospels have been lost, e.g. the Gospel of the Hebrews.

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@layman,

Quote:

don't EVER try telling him that he is not ALWAYS RIGHT.

:-) On the contrary, nothing could be funnier.

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@layman,

Unlike many, if not most, Japanese, Yamamoto did not hold the ideological conviction that mind (the indomitable will of the bushido warrior) would always prevail over matter (the overwhelming material advantage of the US).

Yamamoto had his doubts, and was right that there was only one way to be "CERTAIN," his word of victory. But that's certainly not to say that he thought Japan had no possible way of prevailing.

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@Olivier5,

Krumple got that right.

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@edgarblythe,

No, he didn't, and nor did you. You're just being close-minded.

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Arguably, the most important, and certainly the most useful, invention of all time is the wheel.

Yet I cannot for the life of me remember what that guys name was who invented it.

Can anyone help me out on that?

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@Frank Apisa,

And who invented the circle? Cause you can't make a wheel if you know no circle.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

No, he didn't, and nor did you. You're just being close-minded.

How exactly can someone be close minded who actually does research into these things that are being discussed? Who actually has taken courses on the subject? Even biblical scholars ask this question why there are written works that exist prior to these events and after but none during. There would have to be more than one source that would have survived and suggesting that they all didn't survive becomes suspect. That the most crucial point in time everything didn't survive yet we have stuff before and stuff after.

Even the gospels themselves were not written at the same time. There are many years differences between them. Not only that but the writers of the gospels never met Jesus nor did they actually first hand witness the accounts. What is being written is second hand at best, they are writing about events that were told to them. This fact is backed by biblical scholars and they all are in agreement. There are no first hand accounts. Probably because the events either didn't take place or the events were exaggerated.

Because if one man were walking around doing amazing things surely he would have impressed a scribe who would have written a first hand account of witnessing or meeting this "great" person. These don't exist either.

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@Krumple,

You said there's only one source, which is a blatant lie. And your biblical scholars are all in agreement that the dude existed. You're entitled to your opinions but not to your own facts, sorry...

Now go ahead and change the goal post. That's what deniers do, always.

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@Setanta,

Quote:

I think your Mr. Hughes is just as big a bullshit artist as you appear to be.

You really should go inform the experts at the Encyclopedia Britannica of their complete incompetence and stupidity when employing a "bullshit artist," eh? If ONLY they had your wisdom.

As usual, you assume that anything that you don't already know is not "knowable," because it doesn't exist. It CAN'T exist, because, if it did, you would know it. You do, after all, know EVERYTHING, right? You cite one or two (only) letters from Yamamoto, and then act as if those are the ONLY letters he ever wrote. Fraid not:

Quote:

After the Taranto attack, Yamamoto wrote to a fellow admiral and friend stating that he had decided to launch the Pearl Harbor attack in December 1940 [NOT December, 1941]...After Genda was shown Yamamoto’s letter, his initial reaction was that the operation would be difficult, but not impossible....The initial meeting did not go well for Yamamoto since the Naval General Staff did not believe his contention that the attack would be so devastating that it would undermine American morale. ...there was a conference to review the plan, and where all admirals present were invited to speak. All but one was opposed to the Pearl Harbor attack. When they were done, Yamamoto addressed the assembled group and stated that as long as he was in charge, Pearl Harbor would be attacked.

http://www.thehistoryreader.com/modern-history/yamamoto-planning-pearl-harbor/

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@layman,

Of course even Mark Stille, the author of the book from which those excerpts were taken in that last post, couldn't possibly have the necessary degree of expertise (as does a certain poster here) to be trusted to have done any research, eh? No doubt he's just another "bullshit artist."

Quote:

MARK STILLE (Commander, United States Navy, retired) is the author of Yamamoto Isoroku, The Coral Sea 1942 and numerous other books focusing on naval history in the Pacific. He received his BA in History from the University of Maryland and also holds an MA from the Naval War College. He has worked in the intelligence community for 30 years including tours on the faculty of the Naval War College, on the Joint Staff and on US Navy ships. He is currently a senior analyst working in the Washington, D.C. area

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

You said there's only one source, which is a blatant lie. And your biblical scholars are all in agreement that the dude existed. You're entitled to your opinions but not to your own facts, sorry...

Now go ahead and change the goal post. That's what deniers do, always.

Okay you tell me where I made the claim that he didn't exist?

Tell me what sources exist that record events as they were happening and not ones that developed 40 years after the fact.

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@Krumple,

Quote:

Tell me what sources exist that record events as they were happening

You're talking of a chronicle. I am not aware of any such thing in all antiquity, about any subject, event or person. Maybe paper was just too rare, back then or the literary genre did not exist yet. Even J. Ceasar's commentaries on the Gallic war were written after the facts. The first chronicles I'm aware of are from the middle ages.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
Tell me what sources exist that record events as they were happening

You're talking of a chronicle. I am not aware of any such thing in all antiquity, about any subject, event or person. Maybe paper was just too rare, back then or the literary genre did not exist yet. Even J. Ceasar's commentaries on the Gallic war were written after the facts. The first chronicles I'm aware of are from the middle ages.

You keep wanting to dodge the point.

If the events that Jesus supposedly is credited with happened then why are there not first hand recorded accounts during the time shortly after they occurred. Why do none appear until 40 years after the events take place?

Both the greeks and the romans recorded events that were happening during Jesus's time. If he really was a "magical" man surely greeks or romans would have written about him or these strange events. Absolutely NONE did. You don't get any writings appear until 40 years after the events occurred and these records are not even first hand accounts.

It would be like you sitting in some field and all of a sudden a UFO flies towards you and lands. An alien gets out and speaks to you in a language you can't understand. Then gets back in and leaves. However; you don't actually tell anyone or record these events but wait 40 years and then it is not even you who records it but instead a person who hears it from another source that you eventually tell the story to.

Why didn't you say anything about this happening when they actually occurred? Why would you wait 40 years before telling anyone? How do you know the person who eventually records the events got the details right? Since it is not a first hand account, did the person they heard it from tell it correctly?

This seems bizarre when you take into consideration the events that he is credited with. Neither romans nor greeks recorded anything yet they were around and loved to record strange and peculiar events all the time.

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@Krumple,

So, Krumple, you agree that the logical answer to the question asked in the thread's title is:

We really do not know...maybe yes, maybe no.

Am I correct?

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@Krumple,

Quote:

This seems bizarre when you take into consideration the events that he is credited with. Neither romans nor greeks recorded anything yet they were around and loved to record strange and peculiar events all the time.

Roman and Greek writers recorded very little of what was happening beyond their own culture, among the peoples they called "barbarians". And they certainly NEVER got to know about any of these barbarian stories AS THEY WERE UNFOLDING.

It is partly to remedy to this total lack of knowledge of (and racism towards) Judaism among the Romans and the Greeks that Josephus wrote his "Antiquities of the Jews" in 20 volumes. And he mentioned Jesus and his brother James in there...

But if all you're saying is that the real Jeebus did not raise the dead nor walked on water... then I agree!

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I don't know!!!

I’ve seen guys cut women in half and put ‘em back together again. I’ve seen people make things appear and disappear. I’ve seen David Blain rise up into the air.

So…no telling.

I agree that some of those stories sound fanciful…but we know that fanciful stories were very popular back then…and still are.

My question for both of you would be:

Do you agree that the logical answer to the question asked in the thread's title is:

We really do not know...maybe yes, maybe no.

Am I correct?

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

It is partly to remedy to this total lack of knowledge of (and racism towards) Judaism among the Romans and the Greeks that Josephus wrote his "Antiquities of the Jews" in 20 volumes. And he mentioned Jesus and his brother James in there...

Yeah I am aware but Josephus was not even alive when Jesus was sentenced to death. So he never met him nor did he witness first hand anything that Jesus was suppose to have done. So any written account is at the bare minimum second hand but to be realistic it is probably a lot further along than second hand.

Olivier5 wrote:

But if all you're saying is that the real Jeebus did not raise the dead nor walked on water... then I agree!

It isn't about weather or not one believes he did these things, it's questioning the validity all together because of how there is such a gap in events between when they occur and when they are recorded and by whom they are recorded. It calls into question the reliability of the stories.

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Did Jesus Actually Exist?

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