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Evolution: What Real Scientists Have to Say

 
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Mar, 2004 09:00 pm
i don't know a thing about it, farmerman. bacteriology + lab is this summer -- i'll let you know if we get past staph.
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ReX
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 May, 2004 03:52 pm
Quote:
Did anyone bring up the topic of a particular type of asexual worm? (Hmmm...aren't they all asexual?)


I've often been described as a sexual worm.

But anyway, if there is a force able to create such complex structures. Then is this force not based upon the same principles by which it creates?
What I mean is: If only an(one) intelligent entity can create what we see in nature, then how do you account for it's own existence, it's intellegence and it's motives? If you find that the origin of 'god' is within himself, hence trying to explain why he does not exist within this time-space continuum, then don't you automatically include a system in which 'mutations' can lead to 'evolving' 'life' which can create new 'species'. I really don't like putting 'everything' between ''.
But semantics and the correct specific terms (proven or disproven) are unknown to me. I apologize for this, if any, inconvenience.
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IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 May, 2004 11:19 pm
Re: Evolution: What Real Scientists Have to Say
medved wrote:
Nearly the whole world thought the Earth was flat in 1491; anybody could have tried to argue that such a majority opinion simply had to be correct and, as we all know, they'd have been dead wrong.


...the flat Earth paradigm existed because the evidence disproving that theory wasn't available yet.

Fools trying to discredit the entire institution of science based on the fact that science is a self correcting process is reaching epidemic proportions. I just responded to a similar argument from Foxfyre in the "Spirit Realm" thread.

Listen. Scientfic theories are descriptors of reality. It is the nature of science to constantly improve and build upon theories to make these approximations more accurate. For example, we know that Newtonian Mechanics is flawed. It is extremely accurate withen its range of validity, but beyond that it begins to break down. This doesn't mean that Newton was wrong though, it just means that his theory was incomplete because the evidence he needed to tie it together was not available until years after his death.

A person entering into the sciences with a pre-supposition about the validity of evolutionary theory is not evidence of bias, it is an example of how science only progresses when new practitioners build on the work of thier predeccessors.

Now, listen carefully. My point is this: I doubt very much that anyone entering the field pre-supposed evolution before it became generally accepted by the academy. This theory won through based on its own merit. Intelligent design only exists because its proponants originally approached the matter already believing it to be true.

Quote:
Similarly, we hear that the vast majority of scientists supposedly accept the theory of evolution without reservation. The only problem is, that the really serious scientists who have made any effort to dig into the topic, generally reject it. It's only those who don't really know anything about it and certain kinds of atheistic-leaning and ideologically-motivated neophytes who claim to support the theory any more.


This is bullshit. The vast, vast majority of scientists subscribe to evolotion because it has consistantly proven to be the theory with the most merit - it is based on the best available facts, not conjecture.

Intelligent design proponants (ie - Creation Scientists) believe what they believe based on a pre-determined conclusion that evolution must be wrong because it conflicts with thier religion.

Name some respected scientists who support Intelligent Design theory. Thanks.
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 May, 2004 01:25 am
ILZ
ILZ, you may find the following site of interest re their futile attempt to find respected scientists who reject Evolution. I thought the conflict within Islamic belief interesting, but unscientific. ---BBB

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:PI91ZaVcqXYJ:www.harunyahya.com/incompatible02.php+names+of+respected+scientists+who+support+Intelligent+Design+theory&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 May, 2004 01:29 am
edgarblythe wrote:
What I read was a load of horse ****.


Glad it's not just me. Absolutely amazing that in 2004 so many people are still trapped in the dark ages, slaves to their ancient superstitions.
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KesTrel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2004 07:20 am
Nothing changes the truth, and actual history in the universe. Not this post, not any book not any bible. There is logical order established.

Its my view that humans are an alien species to earth.
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BoGoWo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2004 07:35 am
and another small point; evolutionary changes are effected by genetic 'damage' occuring at the cellular level, usually caused by comic ray impact, or some similar, extremely rare occurrence.
This damage serves to modify an animal's DNA, usually causing a 'garbage' result, ending in the immediate, or early death of the 'experiment'.
On the rare occurrence when this is a seredipodous event, and the result is a functioning, and survival capable creature, it is different from the 'parent' perhaps, in a non connectable way.
Hence, the 'missing' link!

Modifications to an existing species are small, however, a 'jump' to a new species, might be 'huge'!
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2004 02:31 pm
The ancient Egyptians proved the Earth was curved and likely a globe by an experiment with tall rods placed miles apart along the path of the sun in the desert. These and other studies were unfortunately lost in the burning of the library at Alexandria and any remnants were supplanted by the ignorant (or religious fanatics, take your choice). Same holds true for evolution today.
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IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2004 06:48 pm
Re: ILZ
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
ILZ, you may find the following site of interest re their futile attempt to find respected scientists who reject Evolution. I thought the conflict within Islamic belief interesting, but unscientific. ---BBB

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:PI91ZaVcqXYJ:www.harunyahya.com/incompatible02.php+names+of+respected+scientists+who+support+Intelligent+Design+theory&hl=en&ie=UTF-8


I like this site.

But, hey, fix the link - it's screwing up this page of the thread!
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IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 May, 2004 06:50 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
The ancient Egyptians proved the Earth was curved and likely a globe by an experiment with tall rods placed miles apart along the path of the sun in the desert. These and other studies were unfortunately lost in the burning of the library at Alexandria and any remnants were supplanted by the ignorant (or religious fanatics, take your choice). Same holds true for evolution today.


huh
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Moo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 May, 2004 03:39 am
hi, does anyone know the name of a Creationist site by a "Dr." someone? I'm sure i got the link from here about a month ago, but I forgot to back up my favourites when I formatted and I lost the url.

He's one of those people who believe Genesis is to be taken literally, and "explained" how carbon dating is false, dinosaurs and man used to co-exist until the great flood etc. His site was very entertaining, especially the Guestbook where he was both praised and reffered to as being a complete lunatic.

I just skimmed through some of the pages, but never got the chance to go back for a thorough read.

thanks.

edit: got lucky using google. Smile

http://www.drdino.com/index.jsp
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Gabor
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 10:04 am
Evolutionism is a GIGO (garbage in garbage out)
The sad part of if is that it fools many with its "scientific" slogans. Smile
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 11:42 am
A literate, witty, and finely observed refutation of one of the most powerful and useful tenets of biology. Bravo.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 01:01 pm
Why do i feel as though such irony is wasted?
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 01:03 pm
That wasn't irony. That wasn't even a complete sentence. I just haven't figured out what such a refutation would do yet.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 04:52 pm
where are the mARX BROTHERS NOW THAT WE NEED THEM?.

I agree pdog, all those stupid scientists, so little time.
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Gabor
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 05:40 pm
Cosmological "evolution": NOTHING made itself into ALL THINGS.

Nonlife to life "evolution" (abiogenesis): chemical slime hit by lightnings very frequently for trillions of years (several full lifetimes of universes) suddenly it becomes a highly sophisticated living organism (cell) BY ACCIDENT.

Biological "evolution": once life and a living cell is given it is "INEVITABLE" that that little humble living thing develops into all the amazing diversity
of living world ALL BY ACCIDENTS, like avocadoes,
watermelons and human brains. That of course happened billions of years ago and will happen billions of years from now but presently it is not observable. Why? Ask Richard Dawkins or if you do not like him ask S.Jay Gould or similar darlings of the fans of the "theory" of "evolution"

"The fool hath said in his heart there is no God..."
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 06:09 pm
trillions of years?

My, my . . . what an unorthodox cosmology for a christian (sorry for the assumption if it is another brand of superstition which you prefer), Bishop Ussher would not be at all pleased . . .

Bishop Ussher . . . clickity-click!


He has assured us that the world was created beginning Sunday, October 23, 4004 BC. He does not specify whether morning, afternoon or evening though. Not sufficient time there for a million years, let alone billions or . . . heaven forfend, trillions ! ! !
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 07:08 pm
The fool? I thought it was me.
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IronLionZion
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jul, 2004 08:07 pm
Gabor wrote:
Nonlife to life "evolution" (abiogenesis): chemical slime hit by lightnings very frequently for trillions of years (several full lifetimes of universes) suddenly it becomes a highly sophisticated living organism (cell) BY ACCIDENT.


It is true that abiogenesis is a more speculative field, due to the difficulty in reconstructing with confidence historical prebiotic scenarios. But it is fairly clear that natural mechanisms can result in autocatalytic chemistry, though several models are viable for the early "replicator".

Further, the division between living and non-living chemistry is not a bright line this quote implies - and there is utterly no reason to think lack of a universally accepted model implies it is "impossible". Even if we were to accept there is no model of naturalist abiogensis available, that does not, in any way, demonstrate intelligent mechanisms underlying it. Statistical proofs attempting to show it implausible are hopelessly fallicious.

Quote:
Biological "evolution": once life and a living cell is given it is "INEVITABLE" that that little humble living thing develops into all the amazing diversity
of living world ALL BY ACCIDENTS, like avocadoes,
watermelons and human brains. That of course happened billions of years ago and will happen billions of years from now but presently it is not observable. Why? Ask Richard Dawkins or if you do not like him ask S.Jay Gould or similar darlings of the fans of the "theory" of "evolution"


This is nonsesnical. For starters, evolution is observable - we see it in Finches in the Gapagos islands, foxes, etc, etc, etc. Nutbars call this 'micro-evolution' as if there is a fundamental difference between micro-evolution over millions of years and speciation. There isn't. I could go on....
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