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What is the consequence of sin?

 
 
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 01:21 pm
God told Adam and Eve if they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and bad, they would die. They ate. They died.

What happens next?

If no believers join this thread, you are all gallinaceous gizzardless gutless gnomes!
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Type: Question • Score: 6 • Views: 2,169 • Replies: 54
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View best answer, chosen by neologist
Ragman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 01:22 pm
@neologist,
Gnome, sweet gnome!

Here's the deal, the bible was allegedly written not to be taken as an historic recording of fact. Whatever was intended by the multiple authors may be a moral lesson. Adam and Eve got tempted and turned away from the other tree...the Tree of Life.

So their choice, the Tree of Knowledge allowed them to understand and experience sexuality (that's the knowledge they got). I believe as a result of this choice, they lost immortality as a result of what they learned?
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 01:26 pm
@Ragman,
Gnome on the range. . . A country song or esoteric dish?
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 01:30 pm
@Ragman,
Rag is on the ball, the Bible expressing it all in symbolic form

The Wise Men of Yore having couched it in terms your Average Joseph might understand
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 01:31 pm
@Ragman,
Oops! How could I have seen only the first sentence of your post?

That's an interesting and not uncommon description of the Bible, though not what the Bible says of itself. So does sin exist or not?
dalehileman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 01:41 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
So does sin exist or not?
In a very narrow way, relative to the disposition of the specific congregation

The porker would consider us terribly sinful, intelligence a detriment
Frank Apisa
  Selected Answer
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 02:04 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
So does sin exist or not?



Yes...but only for people who accept that a GOD exists...and that the GOD reveals what pleases and offends IT.

"Sin" is anything that offends that GOD.

So whether the GOD actually exists or not is not essential to the thrust of the question. If a person accepts that the GOD exists...and accepts that the GOD has indicated what offends IT...then anything that does offend IT is a sin.

The question that arises in my mind is: Why would anybody stoop so low as to worship a god that gets offended by as much insignificant nonsense as offends, for instance, that god of the Bible?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 02:04 pm
@dalehileman,
And the narrow consequence?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 02:06 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Is it correct to consider murder a sin?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 02:09 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5293655)
Is it correct to consider murder a sin?


In effect, I already answered that.

For someone who accepts that there is a GOD...and that the GOD has indicated that "murder" offends IT...

...murder is a sin.



neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 03:11 pm
@Frank Apisa,
If not a sin, then . . a crime?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 04:32 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
If not a sin, then . . a crime?


In order for a killing to be "murder", Neo, it MUST be a crime. Murder, by definition, is an unlawful killing of a human being.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 04:54 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Just trying to figure things out here, Frank. I'm a little slow, ya know. I was born in... well.

So if Adam and Eve could have been successful in avoiding the 'trap' of 'the god', and any susequent 'traps', would we all be ok?
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Apr, 2013 05:37 pm
@neologist,
then Cain killed Able.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Apr, 2013 05:23 am
@neologist,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5293655)
Just trying to figure things out here, Frank. I'm a little slow, ya know. I was born in... well.


No problem. I was born in 1936...and I am a bit slow myself these days.

Quote:
So if Adam and Eve could have been successful in avoiding the 'trap' of 'the god', and any susequent 'traps', would we all be ok?


I think we are okay now, Neo. Just fine.

We live...we die.

In my opinion, the Adam and Eve story was simply a story invented by rather primitive, superstitious, relatively unsophisticated people who were trying to rationalize the human situation.

rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Apr, 2013 08:10 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:
God told Adam and Eve if they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and bad, they would die. They ate. They died.

I have always recognized the "Adam and Eve/Tree of Knowledge" story to be an allegory for the rewards vs costs of the human capacities of self-awareness and judgement.

When taken literally the story becomes a non-sensical fantasy. But when recognized as an allegory for one of the basic conditions of humanity, it reveals just how wise our ancestors were when it came to philosophical self examination.

The odd thing about the allegory is that it implies that humanity had some choice when choosing Knowledge over Ignorance ("Ignorance is Bliss" representing the Garden of Eden), when in fact the very nature of of what it is to be human forces us to seek Knowledge no matter what the cost.
0 Replies
 
dalehileman
 
  0  
Reply Wed 3 Apr, 2013 11:47 am
@neologist,
Quote:
And the narrow consequence?
My apologies Neo but consequence of what exactly
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Apr, 2013 12:12 pm
The math is quite simple

If the consequence of (a) is (b) then the equation suggests that without (a) then accordingly (b) is also anulled, unless an equal measure is found to accord (b)

(a) = eat from a special tree
(b) = death

I have been wrong before.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Apr, 2013 12:58 pm
@Smileyrius,
Quote:
The math is quite simple

If the consequence of (a) is (b) then the equation suggests that without (a) then accordingly (b) is also anulled, unless an equal measure is found to accord (b)

(a) = eat from a special tree
(b) = death

I have been wrong before.


Unfortunately, the math becomes much more complex if all that is given is (a) and (b)...with no other information.

Unless the fruit of the "special tree" was eaten...the people dealing with the situation did not know there was anything wrong with dying...or with anything.

There is no getting away from that.

The allegory was trying to do something it could not do.
Smileyrius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Apr, 2013 03:21 pm
@Frank Apisa,
wait a sec, what thread am I in? sorry frank, I must have gotten lost along the way Razz

Even by your interpretation, I am not sure the math is negated.
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