128
   

How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

 
 
Amoh5
 
  1  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 07:37 am
@Leadfoot,
John 5:25
25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
.
This verse seems very metaphorical to me and doesn't make sense from a physical perspective. However, from a spiritual perspective I interpret the dead as people who are dead or lost in their spirit/psyche. When they hear the words of Lord Jesus they will be enlightened or livened spiritually.

.
What's your interpretation of this verse?
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 08:23 am
@Amoh5,
I said START there. Read his whole statement, not just 1 verse.
Amoh5
 
  1  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 08:35 am
@Leadfoot,
What is your point of this exercise?
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 08:40 am
@Amoh5,
If you can read these words of Jesus without seeing any judgement day, I will have to question your words about following his words.

Quote:
John 5:25-30 KJV
[25] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. [26] For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; [27] And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. [28] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, [29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. [30] I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Amoh5
 
  1  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 09:53 am
@Leadfoot,
That depends how you interpret these verses. It speaks mainly about hearing the words of Lord Jesus and his ability to judge. I see no title in these verses saying Judgement Day.
I think you are somehow obsessed with a special Judgement Day.
As a Christian I think everyday is a day of judgement to whether I am fulfilling my obligations as a Christian. I'm not aware of any special Judgement Day according to Lord Jesus...
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 10:00 am
@Amoh5,
If any part of the bible means exactly what it says, this has to be an example of that. It requires no interpretation.

Quote:
[28] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, [29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Not obsessed with it, but the meaning of these verses is clear. I just can't deny that he said this. What metaphorical interpretation is possible from " the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, [29] And shall come forth;"?

Amoh5
 
  0  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 10:18 am
@Leadfoot,
I'm not a bible literalist, just a bible moralist, so I interpret the bible in the most realistic way I can. Metaphors and figurative verses have to be assessed very carefully so they don't contradict reality...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 10:54 am
@Amoh5,
Very subjective translation. It's meaningless because of all the contradictions.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 12:54 pm
@Amoh5,
Amoh5 wrote:

John 5:25
25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
.
This verse seems very metaphorical to me and doesn't make sense from a physical perspective. However, from a spiritual perspective I interpret the dead as people who are dead or lost in their spirit/psyche. When they hear the words of Lord Jesus they will be enlightened or livened spiritually.

.
What's your interpretation of this verse?


Hmm, it can be read literally.

The same book in chapter 11 tells the story of Jesus raising Lazarus of Bethany from the dead. There was the stench of four days of putrefaction, what's more. From outside of Lazarus' tomb Jesus shouted, "Lazarus, come forth!" and Lazarus came out, the living dead.

Leadfoot
 
  1  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 01:07 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
The same book in chapter 11 tells the story of Jesus raising Lazarus of Bethany from the dead
True, but the passage under discussion says 'ALL in the graves would hear and rise', which would obviously have to be a future event.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 01:13 pm
@Amoh5,
Quote:
I interpret the bible in the most realistic way I can. Metaphors and figurative verses have to be assessed very carefully so they don't contradict reality...
How do you judge how realistic a future event is?

Or are you saying that what Jesus said about the dead living again is not reality?
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 03:06 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
The same book in chapter 11 tells the story of Jesus raising Lazarus of Bethany from the dead
True, but the passage under discussion says 'ALL in the graves would hear and rise', which would obviously have to be a future event.


In regard to a timeframe, it's ambiguous given the text at hand what with verse 28 that you've quoted, but verse 25 saying, "there cometh an hour, and it is now, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God..."
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 03:29 pm
@InfraBlue,
The dead cannot hear anything. That's a FACT.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 04:41 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I hear ya, but I'm taking what's written in the book of John as a given for the sake of argument.

In Oedipus Rex, did Oedipus have free will?
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 05:52 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
In regard to a timeframe, it's ambiguous given the text at hand what with verse 28 that you've quoted, but verse 25 saying, "there cometh an hour, and it is now, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God..."
We don't really know that they don't. In one of my threads I wrote of my experience hearing a voice when I think I was dead or close to it. I don't know anyone who completed the journey (and was able to report back) so maybe they did hear the Son of God's voice.
Amoh5
 
  1  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 07:30 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yes there are many contradictions to the real world, but like I said I'm in it for the morality not the fairy-tales...
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 07:37 pm
@Amoh5,
Quote:
Yes there are many contradictions to the real world, but like I said I'm in it for the morality not the fairy-tales...


I like your reasoning.
Amoh5
 
  1  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 07:40 pm
@InfraBlue,
Yup very unrealistic, but I'm in it for the moral content rather than the fairy-tales...
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 07:41 pm
@Leadfoot,
Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
In regard to a timeframe, it's ambiguous given the text at hand what with verse 28 that you've quoted, but verse 25 saying, "there cometh an hour, and it is now, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God..."
We don't really know that they don't. In one of my threads I wrote of my experience hearing a voice when I think I was dead or close to it. I don't know anyone who completed the journey (and was able to report back) so maybe they did hear the Son of God's voice.


Mkay.

So, what do you make of verses 25 and 28 in regard to your claim that "all in the graves would hear and rise" would have to be a future event?
0 Replies
 
Amoh5
 
  0  
Wed 6 Apr, 2016 07:46 pm
@Leadfoot,
Your Quote:
How do you judge how realistic a future event is?
Or are you saying that what Jesus said about the dead living again is not reality?
.
I either see them as metaphors or mythological additions...
 

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