128
   

How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 28 Sep, 2020 10:37 am
Jasper10 wrote:

There is no burden on me whatsoever Frank..

No proof will be given either way as we all know.




No burden on you...providing you do not make assertions.

Up above, though, you wrote:

Quote:
"We need to start recognising the influence the devil is having and not just blame God all the time."


Sounds like an assertion contained in an assertion.

Are you asserting that if there is a "god" there must also be a "devil?"

Interesting assertion.

Are you also saying that you can make that assertion without bearing a burden of proof?

You also stated,
Quote:
"The blame either sits solely with man or it sits with both God and the Devil at the same time."


Are you asserting that "blame" must accrue...and that the blame must be assigned to either "a god and devil" or "man?"

No other choices or possibilities?

No burden of proof that there are no other choices?



NealNealNeal
 
  1  
Mon 28 Sep, 2020 11:12 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank,
You have already heard the claims of Christianity. Now you have heard my testimony. Further words are not necessary.
If the God of the Hebrew Bible and New Testament exists, you will have the "opportunity" 😙 to talk to Him. If He doesn't exist then you will be correct.
My prayer for you is (1) God will show Himself to you (2) your life will be as happy as that of Cicerone Imposter.
The same is true of the other unbelievers on this board 😊
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 28 Sep, 2020 11:29 am
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:

Frank,
You have already heard the claims of Christianity. Now you have heard my testimony. Further words are not necessary.
If the God of the Hebrew Bible and New Testament exists, you will have the "opportunity" 😙 to talk to Him. If He doesn't exist then you will be correct.


You were responding to a particular posting of mine, Neal. I'm not sure what your response has to do with what I said there.


Quote:
My prayer for you is (1) God will show Himself to you (2) your life will be as happy as that of Cicerone Imposter.
The same is true of the other unbelievers on this board 😊


I am a very, very happy and content person. Yesterday I wore a hate Cicerone Imposter gave me when we met in New York City a few years ago. He and I are both happy and content.

(ci, if you are reading this, that hat is a beauty, although the printing on it does not contract easily...and people tend to go close-up on me to read what it says.)
Jasper10
 
  1  
Mon 28 Sep, 2020 11:53 am
@Frank Apisa,
The assertion that there is no God is a pretty bold statement? Why make this statement? What brought an individual to this conclusion?....There is no proof that there is or isn’t a God, so there isn’t.What?? What stupidity....

There is no such thing as an Atheist..because we all know that we don’t know if a God exists or not.

Leadfoot mentioned hypocrisy, he’s right...these supposed Atheists are prepared to accept that man is responsible for all atrocities but then relinquish this blame the moment the possibility of God/Devil existing is mentioned.How can it be ok for man to commit every atrocity because this is just how it is but then it is not acceptable for someone else to commit these atrocities i.e. God or the Devil, if they exist and they might because we can’t prove that they exist or not.

Let’s not kid ourselves man has committed all atrocities throughout history.The question is, what influence has God or the Devil had on these atrocities if either exist and can we blame them and to what extent?




Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 28 Sep, 2020 12:08 pm
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

The assertion that there is no God is a pretty bold statement? Why make this statement? What brought an individual to this conclusion?....There is no proof that there is or isn’t a God, so there isn’t.What?? What stupidity....


There are fewer people here suggesting "there are no gods" than there are people asserting "There is a god."

What is you problem?


Quote:
There is no such thing as an Atheist..because we all know that we don’t know if a God exists or not.


Than there is no such thing as a theist either.

All there are are agnostics.

Your point?

Quote:
Leadfoot mentioned hypocrisy, he’s right...these supposed Atheists are prepared to accept that man is responsible for all atrocities but then relinquish this blame the moment the possibility of God/Devil existing is mentioned.How can it be ok for man to commit every atrocity because this is just how it is but then it is not acceptable for someone else to commit these atrocities i.e. God or the Devil, if they exist and they might because we can’t prove that they exist or not.


You are an agnostic, right?

Quote:
Let’s not kid ourselves man has committed all atrocities throughout history.The question is, what influence has God or the Devil had on these atrocities if either exist and can we blame them and to what extent?


Ahhh...so an assertion. You are asserting there is a GOD and a DEVIL...and we have to determine what part they play in the burden of living.

And you accept the burden of proof that accrues to you for it?





InfraBlue
 
  1  
Mon 28 Sep, 2020 01:49 pm
@Jasper10,
Exactly, your assertions are baseless as well as biased.
0 Replies
 
Jasper10
 
  1  
Mon 28 Sep, 2020 02:23 pm
@Frank Apisa,
We can only HOPE that God exists or doesn’t exist.Nobody can prove that God exists or doesn’t exist.

Atheists don’t exist that’s for sure.They are agnostics that is know established.

Nobody can prove that God or the Devil exist or doesn’t exist that is why I said IF either exist.

I HOPE they do.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 28 Sep, 2020 02:33 pm
@Jasper10,
Jasper10 wrote:

We can only HOPE that God exists or doesn’t exist.Nobody can prove that God exists or doesn’t exist.


Okay...you can hope that "God" either exists or doesn't.

I know that gods either exist or do not.

Quote:
Atheists don’t exist that’s for sure.They are agnostics that is know established.


So are theists.

But if they call themselves atheists or theists...they exist.


Quote:

Nobody can prove that God or the Devil exist or doesn’t exist that is why I said IF either exist.

I HOPE they do.


Whatever.
0 Replies
 
NealNealNeal
 
  1  
Mon 28 Sep, 2020 03:05 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Hi Frank,
I testify to the evidence behind Christianity (apologetics) and to my personal relationship with God. It seems like you are familiar with both. Therefore, there is not much that I have to add.
I am excited to hear that you are living a happy life. That is very satisfying to me.
A Christian who doesn't fully abide in Christ will probably not be very happy. It is only those Christians who trust and obey God who can live the "abundant life" that Jesus spoke about in John 10:10b.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 28 Sep, 2020 03:14 pm
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:

Hi Frank,
I testify to the evidence behind Christianity (apologetics) and to my personal relationship with God. It seems like you are familiar with both. Therefore, there is not much that I have to add.
I am excited to hear that you are living a happy life. That is very satisfying to me.
A Christian who doesn't fully abide in Christ will probably not be very happy. It is only those Christians who trust and obey God who can live the "abundant life" that Jesus spoke about in John 10:10b.


Thank you, Neal.

John is the least reliable gospel...and Christian scholars hold it to be the most fanciful. The Jesus Project pretty much indicated that the vast majority of the words attributed to Jesus in that gospel almost certainly are the product of the writer...and not Jesus.

In my younger days I was very religious. I wanted a religious vocation...to become a priest. Glad I veered away before committing.

I still think the teachings are valuable...and incorporate them into my personal philosophy, but I can screw up with the best of 'em.

Enjoy life, Neal. It is the best way to honor, thank, and worship any gods that might exist.
NealNealNeal
 
  1  
Mon 28 Sep, 2020 06:59 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank,
When I went to college I realized that there were subjects that I could respect and subjects that I had less respect for. The criteria that I used was what are the consequences for being wrong.
The subjects that I respected were the pure sciences, math, business administration, architecture, and engineering.
I had less respect for archeology, history, sociology, psychology, and philosophy.
The goofball subjects included religious studies. There was only one professor who knew what he was talking about. Most of them were extremely egotistical. If they were even mildly challenged they had no answer except "this is my class and you will listen to me". There was no accountability for anything they said.
Even back then it was assumed that God did not exist. It was assumed that mankind was the "sovereign of the world". It was with this extreme bias that religion was "examined"
The "Jesus Project" was extremely biased. I put no credence in it
A person can be a devoted Catholic and know very little about God. Liturgy can be quite meaningful if the person knows what is going on. However, many Catholics have no idea what is going on in most of the service. And, who knows what is going on if the service is in Latin.
God made sure that the first "sermon" was understood by each person that was present. That was pretty smart of God. 😁
Since 99 percent of us don't have the scientific knowledge to make a decision about Evolution, we can't conclusively prove to someone else the existence of God. However, God will reveal Himself to you if you let Him.



cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 28 Sep, 2020 07:28 pm
@NealNealNeal,
The best of imagery.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Tue 29 Sep, 2020 06:21 am
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:

Frank,
When I went to college I realized that there were subjects that I could respect and subjects that I had less respect for. The criteria that I used was what are the consequences for being wrong.
The subjects that I respected were the pure sciences, math, business administration, architecture, and engineering.
I had less respect for archeology, history, sociology, psychology, and philosophy.
The goofball subjects included religious studies. There was only one professor who knew what he was talking about. Most of them were extremely egotistical. If they were even mildly challenged they had no answer except "this is my class and you will listen to me". There was no accountability for anything they said.
Even back then it was assumed that God did not exist. It was assumed that mankind was the "sovereign of the world". It was with this extreme bias that religion was "examined"
The "Jesus Project" was extremely biased. I put no credence in it
A person can be a devoted Catholic and know very little about God. Liturgy can be quite meaningful if the person knows what is going on. However, many Catholics have no idea what is going on in most of the service. And, who knows what is going on if the service is in Latin.
God made sure that the first "sermon" was understood by each person that was present. That was pretty smart of God. 😁
Since 99 percent of us don't have the scientific knowledge to make a decision about Evolution, we can't conclusively prove to someone else the existence of God.


You are making all sorts of unwarranted assumptions, Neal...which start with the assumption that there is a "god"...and that the god is the vengeful god of the Bible.

You would do well to get away from that.

I want to suppose you realize that The Jesus Project was primarily a Protestant project. Am I correct?

You have a typical Protestant view of Catholicism...a view which is degrading to the teachings of Jesus.

I, for one, knew the Latin rite very well. As an adult, I served Mass in St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican. I am no Latin scholar, but the "script" essentially is homage to the god you supposedly worship...the god Jesus worshiped.

Quote:
However, God will reveal Himself to you if you let Him.


So will Zeus or Odin or Ra...if you work hard enough at it.
NealNealNeal
 
  1  
Tue 29 Sep, 2020 11:30 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank,
I apologise for my bias against Catholicism. I am Jewish and all my life questioned the behavior of the Catholic Church throughout the ages. When I witness to Jews, the behavior of the Catholic Church is almost always the #1 reason they give to reject Jesus.
I have no reason to be a liberal Protestant either. I find their "research" to be highly suspect. I give very little credence to the Jesus Project.
I KNOW that God exists. I do need to trust Him as He leads me through life. However, He has proven to be faithful.
I know that Litergy is meant to glorify God. However, it has been my understanding that some Catholics merely "go through the motions". When I go to a litergical church, I find it more productive to silently talk to God about a line from the book of prayer.
Once again, I apologise if I offended you considering Catholicism.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Tue 29 Sep, 2020 11:36 am
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:

I KNOW that God exists.


No, Neal...you simply think you know.

I'd ask the question, "How do you know you are not deluding yourself?"...but we both realize there is NO WAY you can know that you are not deluding yourself.

No one can.

NOTHING WHATEVER wrong with having "beliefs" that bring you comfort in life.

BUT if you are going to bring those "beliefs" into a public forum, expect them to be challenged.

By the way, at no point did you offend me, Neal. We're just having a discussion.
NealNealNeal
 
  1  
Tue 29 Sep, 2020 03:43 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Ok Frank.
I would like to point out that you are accusing me of deluding myself into believing something that I had not wanted to be true (I had wanted Judaism to be correct about Jesus). However, I found Christianity to be true
I am glad that you were not offended.
ekename
 
  1  
Tue 29 Sep, 2020 05:50 pm
@NealNealNeal,
Quote:
I would like to point out that you are accusing me of deluding myself into believing something that I had not wanted to be true (I had wanted Judaism to be correct about Jesus). However, I found Christianity to be true


Forget etched in my heart, written in my soul, teufel tattooed on my back, or immortalised as an A2K signature line, I want this inscribed on the rolling stone of my tomb.

NealNealNeal
 
  1  
Tue 29 Sep, 2020 10:46 pm
@ekename,
The Bible doesn't say that Jesus was born December 25.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 30 Sep, 2020 07:44 am
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:

Ok Frank.
I would like to point out that you are accusing me of deluding myself into believing something that I had not wanted to be true (I had wanted Judaism to be correct about Jesus). However, I found Christianity to be true
I am glad that you were not offended.


One...I did not accuse you of deluding yourself. Re-read what I wrote.

Two...are you of the mistaken opinion that you cannot delude yourself into something you did not want...for some reason?

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 30 Sep, 2020 08:04 am
@NealNealNeal,
Sol Invictus was born on 25th December.
0 Replies
 
 

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