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How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

 
 
fresco
 
  1  
Mon 1 Apr, 2019 08:08 am
@coluber2001,
Well, well ! ....'metaphorical truth'.....the joys of ineffability !
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 1 Apr, 2019 02:45 pm
@brianjakub,
Quote:
So are you promoting anarchy?
. He's not promoting anarchy. He's promoting truth and facts based on available evidence. Truth and facts can't be anarchy; it's further knowledge about us and our environment based on prevailing evidence.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 1 Apr, 2019 02:48 pm
@manishsharma12,
Also falsehoods and contradictions. The only 'religion' I find to seek truth and facts is Buddhism. It seeks to improve oneself; to become buddha. What is Buddhism? | The Buddhist Centre
thebuddhistcentre.com/buddhism
Buddhism is a path of practice and spiritual development leading to Insight into the true nature of reality. Buddhist practices like meditation are means of changing yourself in order to develop the qualities of awareness, kindness, and wisdom.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 1 Apr, 2019 06:15 pm
@fresco,
Quote:
No. I am advocating pluralism of belief systems provided that such systems do not coerce others., or incite them to rebel against democracy. The problem shifts to whether 'coercion' equates to 'indoctrination' of children say, and this points a debate the politics of 'education'and the philosophy of ' parental rights'.

I notice there are a lot of conditionals and contingencies in your pluralism of belief systems. And of course - which system gets to make the call on the 'politics of education'.

It isn't hard to see where that circle takes us. Welcome to fresco's paradise.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 1 Apr, 2019 06:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
He's not promoting anarchy. He's promoting truth and facts based on available evidence. Truth and facts can't be anarchy; it's further knowledge about us and our environment based on prevailing evidence.

I guess you missed the parts about the politics of education. If you think that's all about 'facts', you have a personal religious problem that causes selective blindness to your own religious nature.
fresco
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 12:17 am
@Leadfoot,
Only a religionist would use the word 'paradise'. The fact that it is part of the vocabulary of fundamentalists speaks volumes !

Because of technological advance we live in an increasingly culturally converging world in which some parochial belief systems tend to be reactionary impediments to harmony. Educators need to recognise these trends if they are to fulfil their societal function of promoting such harmony. Nobody says this is easy.
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 05:09 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
You have tried to mix them up a bit with your double helix minerals and such, but it really is a different realm. Chemistry can do its thing totally independently of biological design, it does not need life. Take a look anywhere outside of Earth for examples. Or inside a can of beans for that matter, once the instructions are stopped, there is nothing but chemistry going on there and not much of that, even with all the right ingredients.
So thus you somhow hang your hat of belief??

SCience has shown that several of the siderite hydroxy based helical structures were most likely "frameworks" for biological life. Recall that earliest life had probably nothing to do with anything resembling the present " chemistry kit".

Try going along with what the preponderance of evidence really shows. not a " wish list"


Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 06:50 am
@fresco,
Quote:
Only a religionist would use the word 'paradise'. The fact that it is part of the vocabulary of fundamentalists speaks volumes !

Because of technological advance we live in an increasingly culturally converging world in which some parochial belief systems tend to be reactionary impediments to harmony. Educators need to recognise these trends if they are to fulfil their societal function of promoting such harmony.

Is this Mr. Freudenburg speaking?
Or maybe Mr. Buffet? Sing it with me! - Cheeseburger in Paradise!

So which of us is reading more **** into these posts from the interzone?
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 07:05 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
SCience has shown that several of the siderite hydroxy based helical structures were most likely "frameworks" for biological life.


Oh Now you want to talk about statistics. I already invited you to that conversation, but you never show up.

Quote:
Recall that earliest life had probably nothing to do with anything resembling the present " chemistry kit".

What an absolutely rubbish statement. I recall no such thing and just what the **** would a memory of a probability of something we have never seen - be?

Eureka!, Mystery solved, it was Probably that wierd thing we have never seen that did it!
coluber2001
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 07:10 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

Well, well ! ....'metaphorical truth'.....the joys of ineffability !

Well, if that's not religion, then please explain what is.
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 07:50 am
@Leadfoot,
I dont even know what youre speaking about . WHAT STATISTICS??? Are you fully awake?

My point was in direct response to your comment that chemicals and biotic chemicals operate under different "rules" (Mostly because you WANT THAT TO BE TRUE)

At what point to cghemical compounds stop being chemically"unprogrammed" and then become "ID'd"??
Is it when purines an pyrimidines are built?? Maybe diaminomaleodinitrile eh? How come all these "Non programmed compounds" are found in spectra of stars? Could it be that available elements in contact with unique environments will ALWAYS produce similar stuff?

s far a your precious statistics, I thought I caught most of stuff many of us post. Im not perfect because its gardening season and hiking and fishing season and Im not pinky (coldjoint) who apparently has A2K attached to his sleepless body.
fresco
 
  2  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 08:43 am
@coluber2001,
...'metaphorical truth' or 'the emperor's new clothes' ?..decisions...decisions! Wink

Actually, I ascribe the basis of religion as a combination of tribalism coupled with the tyranny of the concept of 'fate' which is a by-product of the psychological construct we call 'time' embedded in human language.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 10:12 am
@fresco,
Of coarse your meaning of tribalism is religion. Their belief system goes beyond "survival of the fittest." It's based on wishfulness and faith. Even elephants know better.
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 10:25 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:

...'metaphorical truth' or 'the emperor's new clothes' ?..decisions...decisions! Wink

Actually, I ascribe the basis of religion as a combination of tribalism coupled with the tyranny of the concept of 'fate' which is a by-product of the psychological construct we call 'time' embedded in human language.


Maybe you are thinking too much, which is the problem with most religions.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 10:26 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
I dont even know what youre speaking about . WHAT STATISTICS??? Are you fully awake?

Your previous post was full of references to structures that were "most likely "frameworks" for biological life" and that "earliest life had probably nothing to do with anything resembling the present " chemistry kit"." If you don't recognize that as a statistical argument then it is you that need to wake up.

Quote:
My point was in direct response to your comment that chemicals and biotic chemicals operate under different "rules" (Mostly because you WANT THAT TO BE TRUE)

I already posted the Wikipedia definition of biochemistry and it included the all important factor of Information flow. Here it is for reference.

Quote:
Biochemistry

Biochemistry, sometimes called biological chemistry, is the study of chemical processes within and relating to living organisms. By controlling information flow through biochemical signaling and the flow of chemical energy through metabolism, biochemical processes give rise to the complexity of life.


Non biological chemistry operates completely free of information working only on the various types of chemical bonds, ionic, covalent, etc. No information required.

The Biochemical Dictionary put it this way:
Quote:
Biochemistry became a separate discipline in the early 20th Century.

This is the core of the argument. Prove to me that there is information flow in chemistry as there is in biochemistry and I'll concede your point.

Otherwise I call Bullshit.
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 10:32 am
The original religious mind has been contaminated by the patriarchal process of objectifying religion. It happened when the aggressive patriarchy cultures overthrew the matriarchal goddess cultures and destroyed not only the matriarchal/patriarchal balance that had existed in Mesopotamia, but also completely destroyed all reference to the goddess, the adoration of the Earth, the physical.
fresco
 
  1  
Tue 2 Apr, 2019 03:31 pm
@coluber2001,
I'm not averse to the concept of Jungian archetypes. But since your 'over thinking' issue is predicated on the human language which fuels such thinking, I conclude that any religious connotation of archetypes is more likely to be a general epiphenomenon of language per se along side archetypes rather than a direct or indirect expression of them.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 06:13 am
@coluber2001,
Quote:
The original religious mind has been contaminated by the patriarchal process of objectifying religion. It happened when the aggressive patriarchy cultures overthrew the matriarchal goddess cultures and destroyed not only the matriarchal/patriarchal balance that had existed in Mesopotamia, but also completely destroyed all reference to the goddess, the adoration of the Earth, the physical.

I love hermeneutics! (hope I spelt that right)
Lemeesee what you're saying. Sounds like :

The current delusional state of them religious folks is because their daddy bitchslapped their mama and it done traumatized and contaminized tha whole frigg'n world.
coluber2001
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 07:02 am
@Leadfoot,
The original religious experience anybody can have becomes second hand in an attempt to describe it. Imagine what happens to it after it becomes third and fourth hand Etc. It's something like variations on a theme musically, which itself is something like a concentric orbit of a satellite that becomes more and more eccentric until finally it reaches an apogee that is so far out that the original orbit and relationship to the planet is forgotten. Religions become so symbolized that the original experience is forgotten.
In religion the original relationship to nature and Earth as the religion becomes supernatural. We start believing we're independent entities with no relationship tothe physical Earth. Our everyday speech reflects this alienation in the phrase: we came into this world and now we are leaving it. A more apt phrase connoting relationship would be: we came from this Earth and now we're returning to it
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 3 Apr, 2019 02:48 pm
@coluber2001,
We are born in it; live in it; then die in it. Some die in the womb, some die at birth, and some lucky blokes live to be over 100 years old. I wouldn't mind that if I had my physical and mental faculties. For many on this planet, religion absorbs a good part of their lives. That's all part of the human culture.
0 Replies
 
 

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