94
   

How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

 
 
camlok
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2018 03:32 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Columbus truly was scum--just the sort of person BJ would make out to be a hero.


Typical Setanta behavior.

How was Columbus, a person that the US has long made a hero out of, [Columbus Day Oct 8] any different than the people who took part in the USA genocide against the people of Vietnam, Set?

Or the USA genocide against the people of Korea?

Or the USA genocide against the people of Indonesia?

...

Or the USA genocide against the people of myriad other countries?

0 Replies
 
najmelliw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2018 03:42 pm
@brianjakub,
brianjakub wrote:

Are you saying Galileo, Isaac newton Francis Bacon, maria Mitchell, Leonardo da Vinci, Christopher Columbus,Copernicus and Max Planck were all easily brainwashed.?

I don't think these men believed because they were brainwashed I think it they believed because they understood the evidence better than the average person.


Frankly, I think that, even if I will not contest that all, or most of these people were Christians, I don't really believe that their accomplishments were based on, or came out of, their faith or the church at large. In other words, given a world history with the same people, but without a Christian church in place, I'm sure they would have come to their respective discoveries as well.

And, for so far they published their findings, if they were wont to frame it in a religious setting, well, that was the sign of the times. They probably realized they couldn't readily afford not to do so, if they were to gain the favor of patrons and the like, many of whom were, in all likelihood, at least publicly devout Christians.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2018 03:49 pm
@camlok,
Quote:
Why would a god allow HIMself to be called by one name by one group of religious nuts and another name by another group of religious nuts, and so on and so on and so on?

Why wouldn't a real god demand/ensure that there was uniformity of what HER thoughts, teachings, commandments, laws are?

So rare, someone wants to talk theology!

At least from the Abrahamic tradition you are exactly right. When Moses wanted to know which God was he hearing from, what’s your name, etc, God got good and pissed and told him in so many words that he had no use for 'a name'. I mean really, what possible use would a non physical being have for a name formed by pushing air past vocal chords? The very idea is ridiculous. The only thing more ridiculous are these religions who argue over just what his/her name is.
camlok
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2018 03:55 pm
@Leadfoot,
The "ridiculous idea" has been allowed to go on for forever.

Another ridiculous idea is that god would only deign to talk to the ignorant people from biblical times, and these ignorants would be charged with writing HER story but to all the moderns, the enlightened ones, he remains stone cold silent.

And all the moderns, the enlightened ones, embrace the word of the olden times ignorants.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2018 04:26 pm
@camlok,
Quote:
Another ridiculous idea is that god would only deign to talk to the ignorant people from biblical times, and these ignorants would be charged with writing HER story but to all the moderns, the enlightened ones, he remains stone cold silent.

That is ridiculous. If a God does not communicate with his/her sentient creations, he/she wouldn’t be worth the title of 'God'.

Quote:
And all the moderns, the enlightened ones, embrace the word of the olden times ignorants.
I don’t think anything has changed. There were a lot of ignorants both then and now. I haven’t studied all the religions but in the ones I’m familiar with, their holy books say that most will not be 'enlightened'.
camlok
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2018 05:23 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
That is ridiculous. If a God does not communicate with his/her sentient creations, he/she wouldn’t be worth the title of 'God'.


There is no evidence that there is any communication. Surely, by now, the gods know about Twitter, email, loudspeakers, that Sean Banality will give them interview time, ... .

It's all just way too hokey for a supreme being to be involved.

Quote:
I don’t think anything has changed. There were a lot of ignorants both then and now. I haven’t studied all the religions but in the ones I’m familiar with, their holy books say that most will not be 'enlightened'.


The folks who say this, your last sentence, have never revealed themselves to be at all enlightened. In fact most reveal stunning ignorance. The few who are truly wise keep their mouths shut so they don't ruin the dog and pony show they have going.

Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2018 05:59 pm
@camlok,
Quote:
Leadfoot said:
I haven’t studied all the religions but in the ones I’m familiar with, their holy books say that most will not be 'enlightened'.


The folks who say this, your last sentence, have never revealed themselves to be at all enlightened

So you’re saying they are wrong? Most will be enlightened you mean?

If not, on what basis are the nay sayers not enlightened?

Being resurrected 4 times, you must be enlightened by now I assume?
camlok
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2018 06:06 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
I don’t think anything has changed. There were a lot of ignorants both then and now. I haven’t studied all the religions but in the ones I’m familiar with, their holy books say that most will not be 'enlightened'.


The folks who say this, your last sentence, have never revealed themselves to be at all enlightened. In fact most reveal stunning ignorance. The few who are truly wise keep their mouths shut so they don't ruin the dog and pony show they have going.


I wasn't clear. My apologies.

The things of the bible are not things expressive of enlightenment, truth, ... they are crafted to suck people into being supportive of religion, which the high muckety mucks wanted/still want today, to keep going because it kept them in wine, money, little boys and girls, ... .

They have supported murder and mayhem since forever.

Look at all the totally nutty TV evangelicals - total frauds all of them. Greedy assholes out to take the money of the highly gullible.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2018 06:51 pm
@camlok,
I can’t argue with you about the TV evangelicals.
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  0  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2018 03:15 am
@Setanta,
Why was Columbus scum?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2018 03:33 am
@brianjakub,
Probably his Catholic upbringing.
camlok
 
  0  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2018 04:17 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Probably his Catholic upbringing.


The Church of England produced a large number of evil scum too, Izzy. What country is it that has been such a poodle, supporting the raping and pillaging of so much of the wealth of the poor of the world. Rhodes scholarships are granted with the wealth stolen by Brits.
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2018 05:24 am
@izzythepush,
What did he do that was scummy?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2018 05:41 am
@brianjakub,
He discovered Cuba which had a large indigenous population. They were pretty much wiped out.

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Ancient_History/Americas/Ancient_Cuba
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2018 06:47 am
@brianjakub,
The most obvious answer to that is that he was greedy to an obsessive degree. When he returned from his virst voyage, he asked Isabella, the Queen regnant of Castilla y Léon and of Andalusia for permission to enslave the indiginous population of what he called the Indies. She told him he could not--if they accepted conversion to the church, they could not be enslaved and if they refused they were to be considered limbs of Satan and to be destroyed. He went back on his second voyage and began enslaving the native populations, and then selling them off to the Spanish who had come to the Indies seeking their fortune. When he returned home, one of the Spaniards, a friar named Bartolomé de las Casas, who had gone out on the voyage, immediately attempted to condemn him to the Queen. Columbus was able to get money and ships, and set out on his third voyage before the Queen was informed of what he had done. When he returned from this third voyage, he was immediately hauled before the Cortes (the court of the assembled nobility) and charged, then convicted. He sat in prison until well-wishers finally raised the money needed to pay the hefty fine which had been levied. He went on a fourth voyage, but he was no longer the great explorer, and nobody trusted him or wanted to have any business with him.

Bartolomé de las Casas wrote about his experiences, and was instrumental in the establishment of the Indies Commission, the purpose of which (if not always successful) was to protect the indigenous populations. Columbus was scum, greedy scum.
camlok
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2018 09:18 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
The most obvious answer to that is that he was greedy to an obsessive degree.


How does he differ from the USA which has been stealing others wealth for its entire history as a "nation"?

Aren't you always the finger pointing hypocrite, Setanta?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Sep, 2018 10:35 am
@izzythepush,
There is a plaque in Baracoa in Eastern Cuba where Columbus supposedly landed.
Quote:
Columbus and his crew pressed on, landing in Cuba on Oct. 28 (1492) and then turning southward—away from Florida and the land of the future United States—and arriving in Hispaniola (Haiti) on December 6. He posted 39 men in a stockade they built, using parts of the Santa Maria as materials after the ship ran aground. Then, with the small stockade built, Columbus and his two remaining ships headed back for Spain in January 1493.


https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Baracoa
https://www.britannica.com/place/Baracoa
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2018 05:53 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Does your god know how each human will turn out before they are born?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2018 06:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
You’re about 5 years behind on that conversation.
Is that typical?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2018 07:51 pm
@Leadfoot,
Yes. As a senior (and even before) my memory has been declining. I'm now 83 years old. However, as an Accountant, I made a very good living from it having been the Audit Manager for Florsheim Shoe Company, Director of Administration for a nonprofit organization, and did consulting to small businesses in Silicon Valley. I was able to travel to all 7 continents, some 128 countries, flew to Mt Everest, dipped in feet in the Dead Sea, visited both the northernmost and southernmost cities of the world, and have met many interesting people across this planet. Not only that, but I have also seen the genius in our social group, a physicist who now has dementia, so from that perspective, I'm pretty happy with my physical and mental capacities.
 

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