How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

@fresco,

Quote:

I agree. Simplistically all religion are wrong because they are in essence socially pernicious. Your own 'faith' merely perpetuates the problem.

You can be forgiven your misconceptions about 'religion' since the term has been so bastardized by the society that you try to defend. But if you claim to understand this society as well as you imply, you know full well that this society is plauged with ills of its own making. The distortions of organized religion hardly leave a mark on its moldering body.

'My faith' as you call it calls for only a couple of things. Get to know God well enough that to love him with all my heart, mind and soul makes sense and to love others as I love myself. If that is pernicious, I wonder about your world view.

2 Replies

@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

'My faith' as you call it calls for only a couple of things. Get to know God ...

How do you "get to know" this entity? Do you rely on written historical texts, or does it leave some type of trail or mark?

2 Replies

@rosborne979,

They certainly cannot rely on the bible, because it claims that god is in the same image as man. Why would god need a stomach, penis or feet?

0 Replies

@Leadfoot,

Yes, thats a 'simpletons' response who fails to understand that concepts of 'self' and 'others' are socially acquired together with their boundaries. Let me know if your 'love for others' has involved substatially sacrificing part of your lifestyle to help annonymous 'others'. We individuals in the West are 25 times richer than the poorest members of the species and the gap gets bigger. Maybe that's part of 'God's Plan'! Wink

1 Reply

@rosborne979,

Quote:

How do you "get to know" this entity? Do you rely on written historical texts, or does it leave some type of trail or mark?

Interesting way to put it. The written historical texts are only clues and marks. To get to know the entity himself, you must talk to him yourself. I admit, it’s easier if you start young, you aren’t so aware of self image then, but at least you don’t have to do it in front of others and look crazy.

2 Replies

@Leadfoot,

Quote:

The written historical texts are only clues and marks.

Funny way to put it. Clues and marks for what? Each individual can interpret it any way they wish? I like that, but there's gonna be a whole bunch of conflicting interpretations.

1 Reply

@fresco,

Quote:

Yes, thats a 'simpletons' response who fails to understand that concepts of 'self' and 'others' are socially acquired together with their boundaries.

I would agree that that is how most acquire their sense of self, but I question the wisdom of doing that. I do not want to be defined by the society I see around me.

Quote:

Let me know if your 'love for others' has involved substatially sacrificing part of your lifestyle to help annonymous 'others'.

Last year it was something like 15% but it used to be more when I was working. That was just to the Feds. State, county & city all come for a bite too. All in all, we pay something like 50-60% if you add it all up. I guess it could have made me sacrifice a bit. Might have ordered a few more options on my new Bimmer if my bank account were fatter. Maybe I should blame the Salvation Army for that. I send them a few bucks now and then.

But are you implying that you can buy morality?
That sounds like an atheist version of religions selling forgiveness.

Quote:

We individuals in the West are 25 times richer than the poorest members of the species and the gap gets bigger. Maybe that's part of 'God's Plan'! Wink

Are you bragging or complaining?
Nobody gives more than the West to try and help either. Most of it goes to corruption in the poor country, but we do try. The best gift we could give those countries is our example.

No, not capitalism. Revolution!

If you are being oppressed, fight it the best way you can. Be willing to die if necessary. But be smart about it, dont go off half cocked and join some stupid mob.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Leadfoot Quote:
The written historical texts are only clues and marks.

CI said:
Funny way to put it. Clues and marks for what? Each individual can interpret it any way they wish? I like that, but there's gonna be a whole bunch of conflicting interpretations.

Don’t play coy, you know what the conversation was about.

And you know what 'it' is.

And you know that they all interpret it as being about God and what he wants of us. Nobody that values it thinks any different.
People do diverge on what they think he wants, but those differences are usually based on somebodies personal opinion, not what’s actually written in 'it'. But those divergent opinions do not invalidate it.

0 Replies

@Leadfoot,

I am truly impressed with your 'sacrifice'. As for your 'buying morality' point, I would cite Derrida who pointed out that no charitable act could be truely 'selfless', even if did not involve the overt hope of scoring of celestial brownie points.

But once more I point out that the overwhelming historical evidence for perniciousness of religion operates at the social level, not the individual level. Indeed the latest scientific understanding of 'the lfe process' discounts 'the individual' as having any significant role in the continuation or evolution of that process. In that respect, the 'God's Plan' or 'personal knowledge of God' scenarios are meaningless.

2 Replies

@fresco,

In the first place, god is (gods are) man's creation. Beyond that, it has no reality. The history of gods proves my point. https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-history/greek-mythology

0 Replies

@fresco,

Quote:

I am truly impressed with your 'sacrifice'. As for your 'buying morality' point, I would cite Derrida who pointed out that no charitable act could be truely 'selfless', even if did not involve the overt hope of scoring of celestial brownie points.

It wern't nothing, everybody does it, Except for those who don’t.
But yes, it is hard to prove to yourself that you are being selfless no matter what your persuasion. It's ROI no matter how you look at it.

Quote:

But once more I point out that the overwhelming historical evidence for perniciousness of religion operates at the social level, not the individual level.

I couldn’t agree more. It is society's effect on religious belief that makes it dangerous. Rarely has an individual's belief in God resulted in violence. It is group-think join in that causes **** like Salem witch trials, abortion clinic shootings, crusades, etc.

Quote:

Indeed the latest scientific understanding of 'the lfe process' discounts 'the individual' as having any significant role in the continuation or evolution of that process. In that respect, the 'God's Plan' or 'personal knowledge of God' scenarios are meaningless.

Precisely right! That is the thinking that precedes events like the Pol Pot's killing fields in Cambodia, Stalin's purges, Hitler's extermination camps, the Bosnian slaughter, the Armenian ethnic cleansing, etc. It is the marvelous vision for a greater society that counts, the individual lives lost in the process are of no significance. Neither are their beliefs.
According to your logic.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

:..not my logic, which is confined to the biological level....more like your logic which identifies the tendency of the masses to be manipulated by the psychology of authoritarian despots and pseudo messiahs,

1 Reply

Just need to mention that religious texts are not histories. Apart from the problem of assuming the existence of a deity, all ethnic and cultural mythologies are purblind to the possible faults and the inevitable failings of their narratives. Even were a good faith effort made to record events dispassionately, no witness can ever escape his or her cultural antecedents.

In the case of religious foundation myths, no such effort is even made.

2 Replies

@fresco,

Quote:

:..not my logic, which is confined to the biological level....more like your logic which identifies the tendency of the masses to be manipulated by the psychology of authoritarian despots and pseudo messiahs,

You were talking biology!?

**** me, I can’t change channels that fast...

0 Replies

@Setanta,

Quote:

Just need to mention that religious' texts are not histories.

It can't be histories or even a religion that purports to guarantee life after death to be a fact. For some, like myself, I wouldn't want to live 'forever.' How many interests can one person have that demands millions of years of life? The one major question I have is, "do they physically age in heaven?"

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

I wouldn't want to live 'forever.' How many interests can one person have that demands millions of years of life?

Me neither. At least as far as life here goes. I've pretty much burned through everything I wanted to do. The bucket is empty. It was a blast.

Why doesn't this happen a few years later when the body will be ready to move on as well?

About the boredom thing, it's a good point you make, as I said, that's my current bitch about this life. The toys, the houses and most importantly the society in heaven are said to be a major upgrade from this place. Supposed to be good for eternity too. I'm hopeful.

Quote:

The one major question I have is, "do they physically age in heaven?"

Ageing would be pretty antithetical to eternity so I guess not. I'd like to know more about the promised new body too but I guess we'll find out when the time comes to put it on, get inside or however it works.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

At what age does the body stop aging? All men will look like Charles Atlas, and all women like Wonder Woman. What a world!

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Just my impression: The new body is definitely not comparable to the current one. I doubt they show age at all, they will no doubt appear to others as exactly what you are at the very core, the values and principles you embrace, the history of your life, how you got to where you are up until that day. All this will be present in how your body appears. How others appear to you will depend on those same factors.

Scary and beautiful at the same time. I think we'll get used to it, but not in such a way that it gets old.

I suppose you could appear as an avatar with any age or appearance you wanted, but I'm guessing that would be like wearing a tux on a nude beach. People might wonder what you were trying to cover up.

0 Replies

@Setanta,

Quote:

In the case of religious foundation myths, no such effort is even made.

If you know it's true why can't adjustments be made to the interpretation.

1 Reply

@brianjakub,

If you have absolutely no basis to "know" such myths are true (look up the word myth) your remarks are pointless. Really, is English your native language? If you "know" something to be true, interpretation doesn't enter into it.

1 Reply

How can we be sure that all religions are wrong?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know