17
   

Beyond tribalism; How well does your religious label serve you?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 09:46 am
@farmerman,
That is strange, over here people who join choirs, or like ringing bells, aren't necessarily religious. There are church choirs, but plenty of non-religious ones as well.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 09:54 am
@izzythepush,
well, that is as it should be. Over here we have these insidious "Litmus Tests" of our societal worthiness, and religions seem to TOP the list.
Its all bullshit of course but the US is several years younger than your civilization
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 10:17 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
Those people are obviously not Catholics or Protestants because they are atheists.


There are people who are both Catholic and atheist. If you believe that atheism isn't a religion, you shouldn't have a problem with that.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 10:27 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Its all bullshit of course but the US is several years younger than your civilization


I don't think can have much to do with it since Canada is even younger than the U.S.

Something else must be, literally fundamentally, different.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 10:59 am
@maxdancona,
There are explicit atheists who make a religion of "science," and are every bit as fervent and domineering as the religionists. I don't have a problem with that, other than the problem i have with the religionists--don't try to foist your views on me. Nevertheless, people who are atheist are not axiomatically the members of a religious group.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 11:24 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
There are explicit atheists who make a religion of "science," and are every bit as fervent and domineering as the religionists


LOL I never knew of anyone who pray to Maxwell or Einstein or even Newton!!!!!!!!!

Science is a means or method to understand the working of the Universe that can be verified with zero so call faith involved.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 11:26 am
@BillRM,
You're an idiot. People can take on faith that science has or will find the answers to any questions, and they are taking it on faith because they don't know a damned thing about science--you know, just the way you run your mouth without knowing very damned much about anything.
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 11:37 am
@maxdancona,
You are the perfect example of one who would force an atheist into a pigeon hole that conveniently fits your world view. The kind that for some reason cannot abide a person that won't be pinned down by faith.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 11:39 am
@IRFRANK,
I can't have friends and associates without ganging together like lemmings?
dalehileman
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 11:58 am
@edgarblythe,
No Ed, not at a2k
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 12:25 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
ou're an idiot. People can take on faith that science has or will find the answers to any questions


LOL as by the very nature of science no one that understand it can or would claimed it can find the answers to all questions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hell that is inheritance in the uncertainty principle of of quantum mechanics among others areas of modern science as we do not live in a Newtonian world/universe where all things can be predicted given enough knowledge and that had been known for at least 60 years or more.

The universe painted by science is far stranger and more wonderful and have more limits of what is knowable then the fantasies of all the gods mankind to date had come up with.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 12:37 pm
@edgarblythe,
I disagree Edgar. I am the one pointing out that you can be a religious atheist.

You are the one who wants to make the experience of atheism into something more than a simple non-belief in god. If there is anyone pigeon holing here, it is you.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 12:38 pm
@BillRM,
You see, this is why i say you're an idiot. It's precisely because some idiotic explicit atheists believe that science has or can find all the answers that they demonstrate they're taking it on faith, and don't understand science.

The rest of your post is your typical incoherence. I strongly suggest that you take some courses in English, or be tested by a neurologist.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 12:39 pm
@maxdancona,
Not to put too fine a point on it, bullshit.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 12:47 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
You see, this is why i say you're an idiot. It's precisely because some idiotic explicit atheists believe that science has or can find all the answers that they demonstrate they're taking it on faith, and don't understand science.


Let see somehow I question that, given that atheists are by their very nature free thinkers and from the studies I had seen tend to be more intelligent and educated then the general population, you could find many atheists that are worshipers of science or anything else for that matter.

People who had rejected one group of fantasies are then not likely to embraced another even if people like you have a hard time understanding how anyone can live his or her life without the shield of fantasies.
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 01:00 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
You're an idiot. People can take on faith that science has or will find the answers to any questions, and they are taking it on faith because they don't know a damned thing about science--you know, just the way you run your mouth without knowing very damned much about anything.


What got to you? The LOL ?
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 01:06 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
I can't have friends and associates without ganging together like lemmings?


That's not what I said. Do you not agree we are predominately a very social species? Certainly, people differ, but we do gather in large groups quite often. Even participating in this forum is social interaction. Sure you can have all the friends and associates you want, doesn't mean you don't seek out social interaction. And where do you find that. At least where I live it's often at a church event. And it doesn't always end up in lemming like activity, usually not. But sometimes it does.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 01:07 pm
@IRFRANK,
Quote:
What got to you? The LOL ?


I think what get to him is the idea that anyone can be comfortable with living in a universe where everything can not be explained and have no emotional need to make up fantasies or adopted fantasies to cover the unknown and in some cases the unknowable parts of existence.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 01:16 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Let see somehow I question that, given that atheists are by their very nature free thinkers


Have you read any of RL's posts lately?

It doesn't matter whether you're an atheist or a believer if you're a ******* idiot.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 01:40 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
because some idiotic explicit atheists believe that science has or can find all the answers t


Not too many idiotic explicit atheists around as such are far less common then you will find in the population of true religion believers.


Quote:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence

Nyborg also co-authored a study with Richard Lynn, emeritus professor of psychology at the University of Ulster, which compared religious belief and average national IQs in 137 countries.[10] The study analysed the issue from several viewpoints. Firstly, using data from a U.S. study of 6,825 adolescents, the authors found that atheists scored 6 IQ points higher than non atheists.
Secondly, the authors investigated the link between religiosity and intelligence on a country level. Among the sample of 137 countries, only 23 (17%) had more than 20% of atheists, which constituted “virtually all... higher IQ countries.” The authors reported a correlation of 0.60 between atheism rates and level of intelligence, which was determined to be “highly statistically significant”.[10]
Professor Gordon Lynch, director of the Centre for Religion and Contemporary Society from London's Birkbeck College, expressed concern that the study failed to take into account a complex range of social, economic and historical factors, each of which has been shown to interact with religion and IQ in different ways.[11] Gallup surveys, for example, have found that the world's poorest countries are consistently the most religious, perhaps because religion plays a more functional role (helping people cope) in poorer nations.[3][4]
Commenting on some of the above studies in The Daily Telegraph, Lynn said "Why should fewer academics believe in God than the general population? I believe it is simply a matter of the IQ. Academics have higher IQs than the general population. Several Gallup poll studies of the general population have shown that those with higher IQs tend not to believe in God."[11] A study published in Social Psychology Quarterly in March 2010[12] also stated that "atheism ...correlate[s] with higher intelligence".[13]
...belief in God may be intuitive for reasons related to more general features of human cognition that give rise to tendencies toward dualism (Bering, 2006, 2011), anthropomorphism (Epley,Waytz, & Cacioppo, 2007; Waytz et al., 2010), and promiscuous teleology (Kelemen & Rosset, 2009)... What’s more, the belief in God may give rise to a feedback cycle whereby satisfying explanatory appeals to God reinforce the intuitive cognitive style that originally favored the belief in God.
“”
- Amitai Shenhav, David G. Rand, and Joshua D. Greene[1]
Even at the scale of the individual, IQ may not directly cause more disbelief in God. Dr David Hardman of London Metropolitan University says: "It is very difficult to conduct true experiments that would explicate a causal relationship between IQ and religious belief." He adds that other studies do nevertheless correlate IQ with being willing or able to question beliefs.[11]
Researcher Gregory S. Paul's findings suggest that economic development has a closer relationship with religiosity.[14] He argues that once any "nation's population becomes prosperous and secure, for example through economic security and universal health care, much of the population loses interest in seeking the aid and protection of supernatural entities." Other studies have shown that increased wealth is correlated with a decline in religious beliefs.[15][16] Indeed, the majority of the nations that showed a strong relationship between low religiosity and high IQ in the 2008 study were developed nations.[10]
 

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