17
   

Beyond tribalism; How well does your religious label serve you?

 
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 08:04 am
@IRFRANK,
wow

I can't imagine what would happen if anyone tried to pray at a sporting event here. Probably booing.

Definitely no praying at group activities or meals that aren't in a church setting.

wow

I really can't imagine it.
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 08:05 am
@MattDavis,
MattDavis wrote:

I invite you to discuss the social costs and benefits of religious labels.


My children were raised Unitarian in a predominately Jewish community. They struggled somewhat as minorities within a culture where faith and race are so dominate. Little things, such as they were told they couldn't play tag on the playground because it was a Jewish game were part of their public school experience. The first question we were asked when we moved into our neighborhood was which temple we attended (our last name is of Russian jewish origins). I was told repeatedly that with our last name and their looks they could "pass" if we wanted to join a temple and belong. No thanks, but there was a social cost. Our community was very much divided along the lines of "us" and "them" amongst the jews and christians. I chose not to participate in either group.

Quote:
Do you find value in labeling yourself with your religious beliefs/non-beliefs? Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Atheist, Agnostic, Jewish, Hindu ....[I can't of course list them all... nor the various "sub"-divisions]?

Do you feel like your beliefs place you in a group?
Is your group label helping or hurting you?
Does the label help or hurt your group?


I don't find any value in labeling myself whatsoever. Like Set, I try to avoid all discussion of religion and faith outside of the internet.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 08:07 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
but they're not part of an atheist group - they're just individual atheists


... who are dreaming that someday one of their own might be elected president...


I don't think there is any "their own". There really can't be - as each atheist seems to have their own sense of what it means.

There is no atheist tribe.

0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 08:08 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
The word atheist should just mean "someone who doesn't believe in any deity". That definition has nothing to do with how a person lives or whether they are religious or not.


I'll go with you until you get to whether they're religious or not.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 08:25 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
they're just individual atheists


... who are dreaming that someday one of their own might be elected president...


the idea of knowing what religious belief a political figure has is truly mind-boggling in the Canadian context

I have no idea what beliefs my premier or prime minister or mayor have. Wouldn't consider wondering about it. Can't imagine what would happen if they announced it.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 08:30 am
@ehBeth,
Why Beth. I am a religious atheist. Is there a problem with that (or are you saying that all atheists are religious)?
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 08:35 am
@ehBeth,
I guess that's why where I live is called the bible belt.
0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 08:38 am
@ehBeth,
There's a lot I like about your country. If it just wasn't so cold.

Vancouver maybe ?
0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 08:43 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:
I really can't imagine it.


My wife and I are college football fans. She graduated from Univ. of South Carolina and me from Ohio State. In Ohio their was no religious activity before a game. But here in South Carolina there is always an invocation. Now I will say that they do rotate denominations, various protestant, sometimes a rabbi, never a buddhist monk. 80,000 people, let us pray.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 08:44 am
@maxdancona,
My personal understanding of atheism doesn't involve a shared belief system.

What I have seen and experienced of religion is people with shared spiritual beliefs.

I think someone could be an atheist who lives within a culturally religious community, but I imagine it would be very difficult.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 08:46 am
@IRFRANK,
If they were to do that here ... and I think they may at some smaller events (but I've never experienced it) they'd definitely have to include Muslim and Hindu and Sikh and Bahai and ... in the rotations.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 08:51 am
@maxdancona,
There used to be more. Robert even tried the pro circuit for a while (not sure how things worked out) but that is way beyond my abilities.

I'll keep mum...so that too many do not wise up about poker (not that most would be able to do the math required.)
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 08:52 am
@maxdancona,
And yet you want ot claim that atheists are part of a group. EB's point, a good one, is that atheists are only atheists by definition of people in groups, while atheists themselves don't need to participate in any group. You comment about it being logically inconsistent is a non sequitur--atheists are atheists because they are not a part of the groups which are religious. That some people who call themselves atheists participate in religious ceremony is evidence that they are a part of a group, but not that they are a part of the group because they are atheists.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 09:22 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
atheists are atheists because they are not a part of the groups which are religious.


If the definition of "atheist" has to do with not believing in God, it has nothing to do with not being a part of a group. Atheists can be part of religious groups and many are.

Atheists are atheists because they don't believe in any gods. If you say anything more than that, then you are misleading yourself by what you mean by "atheist".
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 09:30 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
If the definition of "atheist" has to do with not believing in God, it has nothing to do with not being a part of a group. Atheists can be part of religious groups and many are.


At the end of Channel 4 News there's a five minute segment where people come on and talk about issues based on a particular theme. It was on a form of collective expression for atheists. This guy was on from a group somewhere in London where they all met up every Sunday and gave songs.

He was exactly like the cheery 'isn't church wonderful' type of Christian, but he was an atheist. The whole thing struck me as weird, surely the best thing about being an atheist is not having to go to church, I never guessed some people would miss that sort of thing.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 09:35 am
@izzythepush,
I have a bud who is an atheist but loves to sing. SO he sings with a Chester County (Pa) choir that is rooted in all kinds of religious trappery. If they ever caught on to what was really on his mind, theyed be astounded at how "the voices of angels" arent.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 09:37 am
@farmerman,
Being in a choir is understandable, but an atheist 'church' complete with sermons and singing? Sheesh.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 09:38 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:

If the definition of "atheist" has to do with not believing in God, it has nothing to do with not being a part of a group. Atheists can be part of religious groups and many are.

Atheists are atheists because they don't believe in any gods. If you say anything more than that, then you are misleading yourself by what you mean by "atheist".


The word atheism comes to us from the Greek through the French and means "a" without + "theos" god=with god.

It really had nothing whatever to do with "belief" until very, very recently...the Internet age, in fact.

I agree that most atheists these days (particularly Internet atheists) base their use of "atheist" to describe their position on "a lack of 'belief' in a god", but I think you do an injustice to the word by defining that part of it so restrictedly.

There is a mistaken assertion at times given that atheism came from "a" without + "theism" a belief in god = without a belief in god. But "atheism" came into the English language before theism...so a case can be made that the latter derived from the former, but not the former from the latter.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 09:39 am
@maxdancona,
No, you are misleading yourself about what it means to be a part of a group. Being an atheist only makes one a part of a group you label as "atheist" by default. Nobody "joins" atheism, and there are no requirements for participation in your chimerical group. There are probably many more people who don't believe in a god who are a part of groups which are religious in nature than you know of. From Wikipedia:

Quote:
The exact number of atheists in Canada is disputed. (See the section "Statistical problems" above) The Canadian Ipsos Reid poll released September 12, 2011 entitled "Canadians Split On Whether Religion Does More Harm in the World than Good," sampled 1,129 Canadian adults and came up 30% who do not believe in a god. Interestingly, the same poll found that 33% of respondents who identified themselves as Catholics and 28% Protestants said they didn't believe in a god.


Those people are obviously not Catholics or Protestants because they are atheists. Your "group" of atheists are a group only by external definition, not by self-identification. The closest you can come for your silly claim would be militant, explicit atheists who work against religion. That is a group which does not automatically include everyone who doesn't believe in god. I say you really don't know **** about atheists.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Mar, 2013 09:43 am
@izzythepush,
i should have been more exact . My bud is "hiding out" as a man of faith inside a choir sponsored by one of those non-Catholic "christian" cults.
He dare not reveal himself. He even taks communion with hios choir guys and participates in these "fellowship" events that are always getting me kicked out of church basemenst

HES PASSING
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2020 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 04/09/2020 at 10:54:14