Religious bigotry in seventh grade class room

My point about the six foot Jesuit priests maintaining discipline in the classroom did not imply that that is what one should emulate. It was just to point out that in today's society, a teacher has fewer ways to maintain discipline, if one cannot function like the disciplinarian of an earlier time. In effect, in some ways, you might be in a no-win situation. That was my point.

Go to the principal, and some principals might prefer that "competent" teachers not ask for "back-up." Go to the parents, and some parents might think the teacher is "stiffling" the analytical ability of their "gift" to the education system. So, you might be walking a tightrope of sorts.

I just believe there are times for class participation, and times to listen attentively to the teacher that is leading the class in a somewhat rhetorical discussion.

As far as revealing your religious background, I think it needs to be explained emphatically that one's religion is one's own business, if one prefers. However, being a secular Jew myself, and my last name is known to be Jewish, I would find it helpful to say the faith I was raised in; however, I lost my involvement in it over my life. That puts people at ease, in my experience, since people do like to know who they are interacting with, regardless of whether they have an ounce of respect for Jews, or not. If nothing else, by showing a thick skin towards any student that might roll his eyes at your faith, so to speak, you are being a role model for the other students that might one day receive negative feedback on their faith? But, if your school wants no personal disclosure, then that is what you must do.

I would also request all students that speak (one word) must stand up. In effect, kibbitzing from one's seat becomes verboten, if that request is acceptable by the powers that be in the school.

In my opinion, you have a very salient point. See how much you can contribute to society at large, when not involved in Palestinean concerns.

Is this a required course? Perhaps he might be more comfortable outside of it, if that's possible. If not, I'd say there is a bigger issue here, and it's just not yours to deal with. The school ask you to teach a subject which requires discussing various religious view points and passing on knowledge. They and the boys parents have put you in an untenable position. If the child or parents think that simply discussing other religions is intolerable to them, he should not be there. If the schools position is as it should be that you have an obligation to teach and this child is disruptive, they should deal with it.

Maybe he should be home schooled.

I'm a buddhist myself and at first I was eager to pass on my new found understanding of the world. I've since realized people are not interested and I'm usually just turning them off or asking for them to 'save' me or educate me to their point of view. That's not really relevant to your role as a teacher, but I do understand. I've learned to just keep quiet.

That post was trollish and really just a cover for Foofie's opinion-spam. You'd think an Israel sock puppet would at least learn how to spell "Palestinian". It reminds me of the spam troll posts on computer help forums which start with matter that contributes nothing, followed by the payload like this:

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The moment that you thought you might need to talk to your principal is the moment you should have taken steps to talk to your principal. If it has reached that point, then your gut's already telling you what you need to do.

Students who cause you a lot of trouble often have parents who can cause you a lot of trouble, and this is the kind of situation that, handled badly, can spiral out of control and lead to you losing your job. Don't blindside your principal by bringing this problem to his/her office after it has turned into a crisis. Get the principal on your side so that, the next time little Jimmy Torquemada spouts off in class, you'll have the school administration behind you. And then, if you screw up, you can blame them.

HA!

Hi Lash
Both my brothers are teacher/administrators (or were before retiring) and Educ is my degree as well.

What you want to do is exactly what Joe is advising. And don't delay on this. Inform him/her of the situation. You may or may not need his protection up the road but it certainly is possible. But even aside from that possibility, he and others on staff can likely give you good advice on how you ought to proceed with this child in this classroom.

What is this kid like in other classes? I bet you are not the only teacher who has to put up with this provocative behavior.

Ask your co-teachers.

(His actions seem like anxiety. His parents probably have brain-washed him and he is very uncomfortable with the new information he is getting in your class. Your request for religious tolerance and exchanging of ideas make him very uncomfortable. )

That's a good point. Asking this seventh grader to be tolerant and rational is probably too much for him. Especially with the conflict he is experiencing.

Lash, I don't have any advice to give, but I appreciate what a tough situation you are in.

Not meaning to be inappropriately humorous, but the way you describe this kid reminds me of this...

(the religious stuff starts at around :50)

He's a sad case, but he is exactly exemplary of why kids like this will always be a problem in school, and to the community when they become adults.

I think the suggestion to consult with the principal is worth following, if fo no other reason than to avoid a surprise later at a moment when you don't need one. Beyond that I agree with Setanta here that you do have a difficult challenge in trying to (1) deal with the disruptive student; while (2) minimaly disrupting the class and the object of your teaching efforts..

I suggest noting the monolitic character in Europe during the early Middle Ages before the sectarian divides, beginning with the Albagensian crusade in the early 13th century, and culminating in the Reformation and the 30 years war. The intolerance exhibited on all sides of these struggles was quite obviously contrary to the core beliefs of all the disputing groups and is chiefly interesting for precisely that fact. It is an excellent illustration of both the spiritual aspirations and needs of human nature and the corruptions that can attend all human activities, including religion. Analogous conflicts can be found in orthoidox Christianity, Islam, and most other religions (including Marxism). All of it illustrates the failings of human nature even in precisely its loftiest aspirations. That might tone him down a bit, or at least give the other students a context in which to view his remarks.

An excellent turn of phrase.

I'm so grateful for several very supportive and helpful posts.

I'll talk to my principal.

Of course, I've already asked my colleagues.

In our school, each grade has two classes: English Language Arts with History (me in 7th) and Math and Science. So this kid only has problems with me, the evil History teacher.

I've asked the staff at lunch on two occasions (when he made the dread anti-Cathol statements, and recently as he pronounced Buddhism as "evil.")

They don't have a clue. Some are focusing on the punitive responses, some negate the kid's rights...

When I assigned a biographical PowerPoint of a historical figure, the Christian chose Jesus. I let him do it because Jesus is mentioned in our text. His work was more from the Bible than another text, but I allowed it to avoid him thinking I was discriminating against him. The Bible is a widely accepted text... Actually, four kids requested Jesus, but I allowed the first who asked and told the others to choose someone else.

In other happy news, another kid had just transferred from PA, and all the widely-known people have been chosen for biography... And I tell him I know about this one dude that nobody has chosen: Malcolm X. This kid is new, doesn't know anybody, and has no idea what to do. He researches Malcolm - delivers a searing project - and is at my elbow from then on. The principal comes to me today - and says, "We need to know what you have done to hook this kid. He was "dismissed" from three area schools. His family drives him an hour because he's running out of schools in the area who'll take him. He doesn't do classwork or homework for anyone else, and everyone wants to know why he's doing so well for you."

One day after Newtown, we have a school-wide assembly. The principal is intoning how the teachers are going to train to save kids from school shootings... This kid is standing next to me and says sarcastically, "How will they train you?" and I say, "Karate?" He laughs; I smile. In a minute, I say, "You know I'd do whatever I could for you."

He looks at me and says, "I know."

I meant it. I know he knew.

The Christian kid is extraneous. I love my kids. And my job.

Doesn't it make the whole very difficult enterprise wonderful when you manage to reach a kid like that? That's the happy place for all good teachers. Well done, girl.

And when you hear or read folks denigrating or minimizing teachers and teaching, don't you want to just whack them over the head with a rotting tuna for being so bloody dull and presuming they actually know what they are talking about?

I am happy to read this, lash. Good going.

I wonder if the parents have thought about home schooling.

If they both work, maybe they have a like minded friend who is teaching their kids at home, and he can join?

I don't think the Constitution forbids you from discussing your religion with your students. School policy may, but I see see no legal reason why you can't answer the kid's question.

Of course you may not want to which is not only fine, it probably makes sense, but I would think that's the better answer as opposed to "I'm not allowed to."

No matter what you think his parents may be like, if you feel the situation can't be handled with the kid, you have to involve them. I would not like to have learned that one of my kid's teachers decided not to inform me of a problem because she or he made some judgment about me without ever meeting me.

Sounds like he can't be reasoned with, and so the next step needs to be taken.

I would talk to the principal, but then I don't know what he or she is like. I heard of some that think any teacher that brings them a problem is a failure.

If not the principal, then the parents.

If the parents make a fuss, then you have to inform the principal.

They may not. I used to coach kids in sports and Odyssey of the Mind competitions and I had a couple of kids that were obnoxious and disruptive. When I talked to the parents they were anything but, and the problems got solved. One kid was taken out and other behaved.

So now I'll say, this depends on the particular principal.

Posted my comment without reading updates.

One thing to add...I'm sure that you know better than most, that 7th grade boys have to be the most obnoxious creatures on earth. This kid may be nothing more than the typical hormone flooded smart-ass.