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The Gun Fight in Washington. Your opinons?

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Mar, 2013 02:26 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
He seems unawares of the "real" laws in this country that protects the majority over the individual. I wonder if he ever yelled out 'FIRE' in a filled theater?


There is a law against warning people in a theater of a fire?..... Shocked
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Mar, 2013 02:32 pm
@parados,
Quote:
If only that were true then this government employee would still be alive:


Hate to break your heart but most of the climbers who do put themselves in harm way every year to save other climbers are not government employees but voluntaries climbers themselves.

It rare to have a so call government employee doing the rescuing except in large national parks.

But then we should ban mountain climbing also along with sport diving or cave exploring or anything else that could call for a rescue.

Kind of a hell of a boring society you seems to wish all of us to live in.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Mar, 2013 03:11 pm
Our country needs more guns.

Quote:
BRUNSWICK, Ga. (AP) — Police have arrested two teenagers suspected in the shooting death of a baby in a stroller and the wounding of the baby's mother.
Brunswick Police Chief Tobe Green said Friday that 17-year-old De'Marquis Elkins is charged with first-degree murder as an adult.
The 14-year-old is also charged with murder, but he was not identified because he is a juvenile.
The chief said police were still investigating the motive and searching for a weapon.
The mother, Sherry West, said she was walking near her home Thursday morning with her baby, Antonio, when she was approached by two boys who demanded money. She was shot in the leg and a bullet grazed her ear.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Mar, 2013 03:13 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
But then we should ban mountain climbing also along with sport diving or cave exploring or anything else that could call for a rescue.


There you go again with your logical fallacy since you can't discuss without it.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Mar, 2013 03:16 pm
@parados,
Bill is full of non-sequiturs.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Mar, 2013 03:25 pm
@parados,
Quote:
There you go again with your logical fallacy since you can't discuss without it.


Just happily responding to your logic and running it out to it normal conclusion.

If the state can order the use of seat belts under the theory of reducing medical cost then it can order any other steps needed that would also reduce medical costs.

There is not in fact a logical end point with the kind of logic and thinking you are trying to promote to the point the state would control every aspect of it citizens lives.

parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Mar, 2013 03:44 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
There is not in fact a logical end point with the kind of logic and thinking you are trying to promote to the point the state would control every aspect of it citizens lives.

Wow... I point out that your statement is untrue and you somehow think I have promoted something I never said.

I merely said your statement was not true when you said there was no risk to anyone but the non wearer of a seatbelt. That does NOT mean I promoted the government can and should do something about it. It was merely pointing out that the support for your position was based on a false premise.

Quote:
There is not in fact a logical end point with the kind of logic
Of course there is no endpoint of you insist on using a slippery slope argument at the same time you argue against a strawman. But that doesn't make your argument logical nor does it refute anything I've actually said.

As I said, the state needs to balance individual vs societal rights. That means the state isn't moving to the endpoint you claim. It does mean that society bears some costs in some if not most of the individual rights it allows. At what point does the societal cost trump the individual right is the question that needs to be addressed. Arguing that there is no societal cost is as silly as arguing there is no individual right.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Mar, 2013 03:49 pm
Shooting in at Marine training base, Quantico.

Three dead including the shooter.

Damn.

If only there had been more people with guns there...law-abiding people trained in the use of guns...it probably could have been avoided.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 05:33 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
If only there had been more people with guns there...law-abiding people trained in the use of guns...it probably could have been avoided.


True as private weapons are hard to get permission to own on military bases so they are largely a gun free zone as far as being able to have a firearm to protected yourself on base.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Mar, 2013 07:14 am
@BillRM,
Oh...so only the "privately owned weapons" work in this world of yours!

So cops in schools wouldn't work at all.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Mar, 2013 07:38 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Oh...so only the "privately owned weapons" work in this world of yours!

So cops in schools wouldn't work at all.


Cops , I assume, would have handguns of their hips not locked away a mile or more away from base housing in armories.

Except for MPs that are the same as cops there are not people normally arm on a US military bases except when they are doing military exercises.

How damn silly can you be?

Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Mar, 2013 07:41 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
How damn silly can you be?


You are the one suggesting more guns in the hands of more people will result in fewer shootings.

You ought to be asking that question of yourself!
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Sun 24 Mar, 2013 07:52 am
@Frank Apisa,
Guns in the hands of the good guys might or might not result in more or less shootings however it means that the good guys have a chance to protected themselves and their love one lives from the bad guys with guns.

Just like a home fire extinguisher give a tool to stop a fire and perhaps saves your family long before the fire department can show up.

The government have no power to get firearms out of the hands of criminals only the hands of people willing to respect the laws so unless you wish to protected the robbers and the killers in society from citizens there is little or no point in such laws.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Mar, 2013 07:59 am
@BillRM,
I repeat: Since you are the one who, in the past, suggested that more guns in the hands of more people will result in fewer shootings, you ought be asking the "How damn silly can you be?" question of yourself.

parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Mar, 2013 08:02 am
@Frank Apisa,
Lets not forget, this was another instance of a gun in the hand of a "good guy" until he decided to shoot other people and become a bad guy.

More guns only mean more good guys with guns that can turn into bad guys with guns.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Mar, 2013 08:05 am
@parados,
I'm sure Bill means well...but the thinking of the gun-rights people has gone bat-**** crazy of late.



0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Mar, 2013 08:11 am
@Frank Apisa,
I
Quote:
repeat: Since you are the one who, in the past, suggested that more guns in the hands of more people will result in fewer shootings, you ought be asking the "How damn silly can you be?" question of yourself.


Would you care to find such postings of mine?

Off hand I do not remember making any such postings however I had made the point that it might reduce arm robberies and such if more of the victims had firearms and such criminals had more of a fear of being harm themselves.

Pointing out that gun shops loaded with hundred of thousands of dollars worth of firearms are rarely robbed when they are open due to all the employees normally being openly armed.

Next governments can not always even keep all firearms out of the hands of criminals in prisons let alone on the street.

Quote:


http://www.correctionsone.com/contraband/articles/1961780-15-deadly-improvised-prison-weapons-and-tools/

http://www.correctionsone.com/data/shotgun2.jpg

SHOTGUN - made from iron bedposts; charge made of pieces of lead from curtain tape and match-heads, to be ignited by AA batteries and a broken light bulb. On May 21, 1984 two inmates of a prison in Celle, Germany, took a jailer as a hostage, showed off their fire power by letting go at a pane of bullet-proof glass, and escaped by car.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Mar, 2013 08:34 am
@parados,
Quote:
Lets not forget, this was another instance of a gun in the hand of a "good guy" until he decided to shoot other people and become a bad guy.



Whether the bad guy have a record of being a bad guy or not does not change the fact that no law that can be passed at the federal or state level will keep a bad guy from being armed if he wish to be.

All you can do by any law is to interfere with the good guys having a chance to defend themselves and their families from the bad guys.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Mar, 2013 08:58 am
@BillRM,
If guns are as easy to make as you claim then why don't all those in jail make them?

Quote:
All you can do by any law is to interfere with the good guys having a chance to defend themselves and their families from the bad guys.
Of course Bill if we all lived in your reality. In the real world if guns are harder to come by then it is harder for criminals to get them. Your gun made in prison is a prime example of that. Guns per person outside of prison is almost 1 gun per person. Guns per prisoner is what? 1 gun per 100,000 prisoners? 1 gun per 1,000,000 prisoners? I think that proves pretty conclusively that making guns difficult to get means it's harder for bad guys to get them.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Mar, 2013 02:13 pm
@parados,
Quote:
f guns are as easy to make as you claim then why don't all those in jail make them?


Strange you are not bright enough to understand that not even in a prison can there be a 100 percent guarantee that firearms can not be either smuggle in or even manufacture behind bar and therefore there is zero chance that with 300 millions guns in existence now you can wave a legal magic wand and removed all of them or prevented someone from buying a few thousands dollars of metal working machines and going into the manufacturing firearms business.

CRIMINALS who wish to will always be armed the only people you have a damn chance of disarming are the good guys.

Making all of us sitting ducks for these criminals.

 

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